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Anarchist and Communist Q and A; OwO
Topic Started: Feb 14 2018, 06:27 AM (259 Views)
Xanny
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Ask anything to do with Communism or Anarchism and I will try and answer in good faith.

This is not a thread for debate, ask and I will answer. Further questions are encouraged but throwing my answers back in my face is not.
Edited by Xanny, Feb 14 2018, 06:30 AM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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The main elephant in the room is of course the historical record of communism. Basically, what do you think were the main faults of socialist regimes in the 20th century and how could these faults be avoided when trying it again?
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Soopairik
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What’s the difference between Marxism, Leninism, Stalinism, and Maoism?
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Xanny
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Jinfengopteryx
Feb 14 2018, 07:18 AM
The main elephant in the room is of course the historical record of communism. Basically, what do you think were the main faults of socialist regimes in the 20th century and how could these faults be avoided when trying it again?
The failure of 20th century Marxist states can be traced to the failure of the Russian Revolution. It's failure to consolidate worker's control in Russia, it's failure to expand the revolution internationally outwards, it's failure to eliminate class divisions and opportunist bureaucrats and the general failure at being a worker's revolution.

In hindsight some of these problems seem inevitable due to social conditions of Russia and the eventual civil war (not justifiable, just tragically inevitable). Though events like the failure of the Red Army to advance through Poland to Germany and maybe Hungary to assist their socialist uprisings could have changed the totalitarian path the USSR devolved into in it's Isolation. Other things like the consolidation of right wing socialists like Bukharin to stagnate the USSR or opportunist bureaucrats like Stalin and his supporters are other tragic events that doomed revolutionary potential in the USSR could have been avoided.

In the end with Stalin's consolidation of power his administration had by the 30s long crushed revolutionary potential in the USSR and had partly sabotaged the world socialist movement. Supporting movements and parties only if they tend to the will of the Kremlin and sabotaging ones if it didn't benefit them (like in Spain, Korea and Greece). The Union became politically a repressive one party state and economically a state capitalist oligarchy.

The reason this matters is because a majority of self proclaimed socialist states were propped up and adopted the same revisionist policies that developed in the USSR under Stalin. Even ones that developed independently of the USSR like China, Yugoslavia, Albania etc suffered similarly from even following the same model that developed in the USSR. All of these issues are a consequence of the failure of the Russian Revolution

As the USSR has collapsed and with it the global foothold Marxist-Leninists had in the world. It belongs in the 20th century.

The latter question is harder to answer as the radical left is in a time of slow progress or a restructuring. Class consciousness is at an all time low but it seems to be slowly reversing with identity politics being a much larger force than before. A far more inclusive, interconnected and decentralized method can be seen to push progress forward but to establish socialism? I couldn't say because I'm in a transitionary period myself on whether I support Revolutionary Anarchist Communism or Left Communism (two very opposing ideologies).
Soopairik
Feb 14 2018, 07:21 AM
What’s the difference between Marxism, Leninism, Stalinism, and Maoism?
Disgustingly simplified at 2 am

Marxism is an analysis of the capitalist mode of production through a historically materialistic lense of class struggle. It is a very complex and in-depth socioeconomic theory which comes to the conclusion that capitalism will collapse on its own contradictions and has made clear what those contradictions are.

Leninism is political theory where there is a vanguard party which is comprised of professional revolutionaries that are the most active and class conscious members of the working class to lead the revolution. The party is the vanguard of the revolution that guides the working class to form the dictatorship of the proletariat over the bourgeoisie. Keep in mind Leninism was not an ideology or idea coined by Lenin himself.

Stalinism is an insult or term used critics of the Soviet Union to describe the authoritarian bureaucracies that first emerged under Stalin and which then were replicated in future Soviet client states. Most Marxist Leninists would just refer to Stalinism is a derogatory term for Marxist Leninism

Maoism is very specific as it just the beliefs and ideas formed and instituted by Mao. This includes ideas like the Mass Line, Cultural Revolution, People's War, Third Worldism and Materialistic contradiction. It is a form of Marxist-Leninism which rejects such elitist vanguardism and focuses revolutionary potential in the agrarian peasantry rather than urban proletariat.


I'd highly recommend further reading
Edited by Xanny, Feb 14 2018, 07:02 PM.
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Soopairik
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“Revolutionary Anarchist Communism or Left Communism (two very opposing ideologies).”
How? Both are left wing ideologies that hate authority.
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Dionysus

Jinfengopteryx
Feb 14 2018, 07:18 AM
The main elephant in the room is of course the historical record of communism. Basically, what do you think were the main faults of socialist regimes in the 20th century and how could these faults be avoided when trying it again?
Is communism the problem or a dictator despot in charge of communism?

Is Capitalism any better than communism discuss and define in your blue books.

Is fascism now trending in the USA preferable to freedom?
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Jinfengopteryx
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Is that supposed to be an answer? You are supposed to ask Xanny, not me!
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Dionysus

Xanny
Feb 14 2018, 06:27 AM
Ask anything to do with Communism or Anarchism and I will try and answer in good faith.

This is not a thread for debate, ask and I will answer. Further questions are encouraged but throwing my answers back in my face is not.
Is communism the problem or a dictator despot in charge of communism?

Is Capitalism any better than communism discuss and define in your blue books.

Is fascism now trending in the USA preferable to freedom?

Dionysus
Feb 18 2018, 10:23 AM
Jinfengopteryx
Feb 14 2018, 07:18 AM
The main elephant in the room is of course the historical record of communism. Basically, what do you think were the main faults of socialist regimes in the 20th century and how could these faults be avoided when trying it again?
Is communism the problem or a dictator despot in charge of communism?

Is Capitalism any better than communism discuss and define in your blue books.

Is fascism now trending in the USA preferable to freedom?
The main elephant in the room is of course the historical record of communism.

Your words.

My questions were also for you defend your positions or minimally explain your positions?
Soopairik
Feb 14 2018, 07:21 AM
What’s the difference between Marxism, Leninism, Stalinism, and Maoism?

Stalin imposed totalitarian dictatorship


marx had his economic theory of the state working for the good of the people and the people sharing prosperity in equality.
Moa stressed worker peasant class



Edited by Soopairik, Feb 18 2018, 02:01 PM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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Dionysus
Feb 18 2018, 10:48 AM
Dionysus
Feb 18 2018, 10:23 AM
Jinfengopteryx
Feb 14 2018, 07:18 AM
The main elephant in the room is of course the historical record of communism. Basically, what do you think were the main faults of socialist regimes in the 20th century and how could these faults be avoided when trying it again?
Is communism the problem or a dictator despot in charge of communism?

Is Capitalism any better than communism discuss and define in your blue books.

Is fascism now trending in the USA preferable to freedom?
The main elephant in the room is of course the historical record of communism.

Your words.

My questions were also for you defend your positions or minimally explain your positions?
This is not a debate thread. It has a simple "Ask Xanny a question and Xanny answers" format. The reason I asked this question is because this argument is often used against communism.

But to answer your questions:
1. This only moves the problem to "Why has there never been a democratic communist state?".
2. While this was not the point of the question, if going by historical record alone, yes, capitalism is indeed better.
3. No, but this is a red herring.
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Xanny
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Soopairik
Feb 16 2018, 12:07 PM
“Revolutionary Anarchist Communism or Left Communism (two very opposing ideologies).”
How? Both are left wing ideologies that hate authority.
Because it is far more complex than that. Aside from one being Anarchist and the other being Marxist (already two very different ideologies), Anarchist Communism is the abolition of the state through violent revolution that avoids the Marxist idea of the dictatorship of the proletariat (the unchallenged rule of the working class over the elite during the transition to Communism). As it sees the state not as a tool of class rule that the bourgeoisie (ruling class) to oppress the working class but as an extension of the bourgeoisie itself. Plus a tonne of other complex socioeconomic theories and philosophies.

Left Communism is extremely different as it doesn't advocate for revolution and direct action as it sees it as opportunistic and almost reformist as they see Socialism as the absence of Capitalism. It will only come when the material conditions have manifested for it to form as capitalism will inevitably collapse under the weight of it's own contradictions like how fuedalism, slavery or tribalism did. (Plus another tonne of socioeconomic theory and philosophies)
Quote:
 
2. While this was not the point of the question, if going by historical record alone, yes, capitalism is indeed better.

This is very questionable when you consider that
1) All these Soviet states were State Capitalist in reality (the capitalist mode of production overtaken by the state without being altered).
2) Hitler, Saddam, Idi Amin, Mussolini, Pinochet, Assad, Franco and so many other dictators all happened under traditional corporate capitalism. Additionally the atrocities under European Empires like colonialism and the slave trade also are a result of capitalism and the vast majority of countries impoverished today are poor because of the current day capitalist world order.
Edited by Xanny, Feb 19 2018, 06:44 PM.
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Soopairik
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All communists are anarchists, but not all anarchists are communists. Is this true?
Or at least the two ideologies heavily overlap.
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Xanny
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Soopairik
Feb 19 2018, 06:52 PM
All communists are anarchists, but not all anarchists are communists. Is this true?
Or at least the two ideologies heavily overlap.
No, Anarchism is fundamentally different from Marxism. They can overlap but they are so massive and have so many varied ideas that this is an inevitablity.

Anarchist Communism and other forms of Social Anarchism are forms of Anarchism that include Communism but they are not Marxist Communism.
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Dionysus

Jinfengopteryx
Feb 18 2018, 01:59 PM
Dionysus
Feb 18 2018, 10:48 AM
Dionysus
Feb 18 2018, 10:23 AM
Jinfengopteryx
Feb 14 2018, 07:18 AM
The main elephant in the room is of course the historical record of communism. Basically, what do you think were the main faults of socialist regimes in the 20th century and how could these faults be avoided when trying it again?
Is communism the problem or a dictator despot in charge of communism?

Is Capitalism any better than communism discuss and define in your blue books.

Is fascism now trending in the USA preferable to freedom?
The main elephant in the room is of course the historical record of communism.

Your words.

My questions were also for you defend your positions or minimally explain your positions?
This is not a debate thread. It has a simple "Ask Xanny a question and Xanny answers" format. The reason I asked this question is because this argument is often used against communism.

But to answer your questions:
1. This only moves the problem to "Why has there never been a democratic communist state?".
2. While this was not the point of the question, if going by historical record alone, yes, capitalism is indeed better.
3. No, but this is a red herring.


2. historical record alone, yes, capitalism is indeed better

How have you reached this conclusion?

2a. Capitalism explained
Does capitalism work for the benefit of all, or is it just a tool to exploit the working classes?
From Our Mayday website, April 2003

History & Definition

It is like the air we breathe & the water we drink, it is like beer & cricket & the need for money. It is, we think, the natural order of things.

The exact birth date of capitalism remains shrouded in the mists of history, with anywhere between the 14th & 17th century being suggested.

Key starting points have been identified as the enclosure of common land,the development of merchant capital, the transatlantic slave trade & the 'witchcraft' persecutions of thousands of 'masterless' women, who found relative freedom as bonds of feudalism weakened.

Developing from within feudal society, the birth of capitalism was violent & painful, tearing apart the existing relations of society With terrible force a new class was created - the working class - torn from the land by enclosures & on pain of death set to work in the factories. The class oppressions of feudal society were not done away with, but were created anew.

top

Early capitalism required a constantly expanding market for selling its products & a constantly expanding pool of cheap labour. This led to the discovery of the 'new world' & the extermination of its indigenous inhabitants; to colonialism, countless massacres & two world wars.

As the world market was finite, capitalism also had to intensify exploitation & create a need for consumer goods. This was the source of class struggle. Collective action by producers was the one threat to capital, so it also had to intensify divisions, between skilled & unskilled workers, manual & mental labour, 'men's' & 'women's' work.

As a result the products of capitalism are designed to keep us atomised; the process of production designed to make us slave harder. This was seen in 'Fordism' or 'Taylorism' when all tasks were broken down into component parts & workers' time constantly controlled. http://www.urban75.org/mayday/capitalism.html


You think the USA is not under the influence of fascism?

3. a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition.
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Soopairik
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Dion, if you want to, you may start your own Capitalist vs Communist Comparison thread.
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Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan
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I want to ask your opinion on this. Why do you think most communism parties in the world considered dictators?
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Don't walk on my roof!
- Luke Castellan
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Dionysus

Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan
Feb 20 2018, 06:15 PM
I want to ask your opinion on this. Why do you think most communism parties in the world considered dictators?
When poor people are denied under capitalism or feudalism they rebel. When you have nothing to lose your life is also meaningless. Along comes a leader spouting lies and playing the song for those Dunning–Kruger effect, humans and that bully becomes president or furor of commissar. Then comes the takeover of the military and the dictatorship, subjugating what were at one time supporters of the tyrant.

trump is on that path.
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Soopairik
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Dionysus
Feb 21 2018, 05:52 PM
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan
Feb 20 2018, 06:15 PM
I want to ask your opinion on this. Why do you think most communism parties in the world considered dictators?
When poor people are denied under capitalism or feudalism they rebel. When you have nothing to lose your life is also meaningless. Along comes a leader spouting lies and playing the song for those Dunning–Kruger effect, humans and that bully becomes president or furor of commissar. Then comes the takeover of the military and the dictatorship, subjugating what were at one time supporters of the tyrant.

trump is on that path.
This is an Q&A thread where Xanny answers the questions. If you want to start your own communist thread, please do so elsewhere.
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Xanny
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Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan
Feb 20 2018, 06:15 PM
I want to ask your opinion on this. Why do you think most communism parties in the world considered dictators?
I sorta already answered this question above.
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Dionysus

trump may well be the antichrist He has a group of followers willing to subvert sane government and support anti freedom and christian teachings.

He is now talking of being president for life. Any person with brains enough to think and not follow hate filled liars should see that proclamation as a clear and present danger to America.
Edited by Dionysus, Mar 6 2018, 04:03 PM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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What does this have to do with the topic?
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Dionysus

"Historical record of Communism" what is that? USSR is and was a dictatorship as is China and Cuba. Show what Communist country not under a dictator has that is historically abhorrent?
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Jinfengopteryx
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No, I mean your rant on Trump.
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Xanny
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Dionysus
Mar 6 2018, 04:06 PM
"Historical record of Communism" what is that? USSR is and was a dictatorship as is China and Cuba. Show what Communist country not under a dictator has that is historically abhorrent?
(Off the top of my head) Revolutionary Catalonia, Free Territory of Ukraine, Paris Commune and currently the EZLN and Rojava.

None of these had achieved socialism (not even close) but it shows the democratic revolutionary potential in the movement and that not everything is tainted by Stalinism.
Edited by Xanny, Mar 8 2018, 03:44 AM.
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Jinfengopteryx
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To finally ask a new question, how does communism address the problem of those responsible for the industry emigrating to avoid losing their wealth due to redistributions?
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Xanny
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Jinfengopteryx
Mar 8 2018, 02:42 PM
To finally ask a new question, how does communism address the problem of those responsible for the industry emigrating to avoid losing their wealth due to redistributions?
Industry emigration is a phenomenon exclusive to capitalism.


The capitalist class started emigrating their industry abroad because the countries that they had relocated production in had not have a necessary history of class struggle. The benefits reaped from the labour and union movements in developed countries (higher wages, better working conditions, benefits, pensions, paid overtime, maximum working week, abolishment of child labour, vacations, the weekend itself etc) are the cause of this exodus of manufactering into the developing world because they do not have most of these benefits as they haven't had the industry to fight to gain them yet (until now).

This exodus of industry is unique to capitalism because capitalism is a competitive profit driven system in which the means of production are controlled hierarchically and authoritarianly by private individuals. To move industry abroad to make more money is a tool of power in the market because those who don't will be out competed by those who do. It is incentivised to move abroad and has already been the case for decades. Moving industry back is futile as that is a gamble which could lead you to be forced out of the market (which is why both Bernie and Trump's promises on reviving local industry are vapid and empty).

(Simplified) In Socialism where profit is not the driving force of the work place and the work place itself is democratically controlled and managed by the workers themselves: would the workers really decide to move their industry to China and vote away their jobs for extra profit? No. Industry cannot emigrate in a socialist system because there are no capitalists to relocate industry and there is no profit to incentivize that in a socialist system anyway.

Thats a small jist of it. A lot more complex stuff like how the abolishment of capital/the economy, post scarcity, communism's internationalism and how commodity production is unique to capitalism as well make that impossible under communism.
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Dionysus

You clearly have zero understanding of capitalism or socialism. Capitalism has one goal. To make money nothing else is a concern. Socialism has a goal of society providing fr society.
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Xanny
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Dionysus
Mar 12 2018, 09:04 AM
You clearly have zero understanding of capitalism or socialism. Capitalism has one goal. To make money nothing else is a concern. Socialism has a goal of society providing fr society.
Yeah, if you simplify my point to an atom then I literally just said that multiple times. Do you really believe you know more than a socialist about socialism (or even capitalism for that matter).
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Soopairik
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How will a communist society deal with crime? In a capitalist society, there will often be some sort of law enforcement agency nearby, or judges to determine what constitutes as a crime and what doesn't. How will a communist society decide what's crime, what's not, and how to reduce it?
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STHOMPol

dion nobody cares about your opinion on trump and this is not the thread for whining about it so please gtfo
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Dionysus

Xanny
Mar 12 2018, 11:32 AM
Dionysus
Mar 12 2018, 09:04 AM
You clearly have zero understanding of capitalism or socialism. Capitalism has one goal. To make money nothing else is a concern. Socialism has a goal of society providing fr society.
Yeah, if you simplify my point to an atom then I literally just said that multiple times. Do you really believe you know more than a socialist about socialism (or even capitalism for that matter).
Do you really believe you know more than a socialist about socialism (or even capitalism for that matter).

More than what?
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