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Gun Control
Topic Started: Feb 25 2018, 10:42 PM (423 Views)
starman
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Soopairik
Mar 12 2018, 02:01 PM
But why? How will regular citizens protect themselves if the police aren’t near?


IIRC statistics show a gun is 11 times more likely to kill someone it wasn't originally intended to harm than an intruder.

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Soopairik
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starman
May 14 2018, 06:35 AM
Soopairik
Mar 12 2018, 02:01 PM
But why? How will regular citizens protect themselves if the police aren’t near?


IIRC statistics show a gun is 11 times more likely to kill someone it wasn't originally intended to harm than an intruder.

Where did you get the stats?
Edited by Soopairik, May 14 2018, 06:47 AM.
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starman
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Don't remember. Does anyone else know if law enforcement encourages or discourages private ownership of guns?
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Soopairik
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http://m.policemag.com/article/3140/the-2016-police-presidential-poll

Considering 84% of police officers voted for Trump, I would say so.
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Siris
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Ausar Reborn
What about home security? What do you all think of the use of firearms for home defense? Do you think there are better means of home defense or not (my family doesn't own firearms, but we do have security cameras around the house and, I'm pretty sure, a security system)? What do the stats say?
The mind is its own place, and in itself Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
~John Milton

If you listen carefully at the door to the past, what you hear most - above all the distant sounds of daily life and death - is the beating of the most unstoppable heart.
~Ian Mortimer
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Soopairik
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Siris
May 19 2018, 03:54 PM
What about home security? What do you all think of the use of firearms for home defense? Do you think there are better means of home defense or not (my family doesn't own firearms, but we do have security cameras around the house and, I'm pretty sure, a security system)? What do the stats say?
if you're in a rural area and the nearest police station is half an hour away, it would make sense for you to own a gun. But in a big city, there's very little reason to. If you live in a big city, you could scare others. And when the police arrive, they might mistake you as the shooter as you'll also have a gun and loaded.
http://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

Polls on guns in the US
Edited by Soopairik, Jun 2 2018, 06:44 PM.
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starman
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Soopairik
May 19 2018, 08:14 AM
http://m.policemag.com/article/3140/the-2016-police-presidential-poll

Considering 84% of police officers voted for Trump, I would say so.


But I presume they voted on the basis of a broad range of issues, or a greater natural identification with someone like him, not the issue of private gun ownership specifically. You'd think police would favor laws leaving them the only civilian gun owners.
Edited by starman, Jun 3 2018, 01:44 AM.
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Dionysus

Jasonn
May 1 2018, 12:11 PM
Under no circumstances should we allow the mentally ill to get weapons and their should be massive waiting periods.

However, though, for the sane, all guns should be allowed.
All guns? I would like a 155 howitzer and 1000 rounds. Or a full auto trench sweeper then I could sell them at a gun show with no background checks to a gun nut and that nut could kill 200 or more students. Hell why not arm teachers all teachers with trench sweepers and when they fire at bad guy they will kill the kids he missed.
starman
May 14 2018, 06:35 AM
Soopairik
Mar 12 2018, 02:01 PM
But why? How will regular citizens protect themselves if the police aren’t near?


IIRC statistics show a gun is 11 times more likely to kill someone it wasn't originally intended to harm than an intruder.

[/quote]Many people are killed by their own guns.

Handguns are almost useless for self defense. Law enforcement officers are required to train monthly and qualify annually. They get in gunfights and miss the bad guy. The BS spewed by gun nuts and nra is just that absolute BS.
Edited by Dionysus, Jun 3 2018, 01:50 PM.
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Soopairik
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Not that I do not believe you, but do you have any statistical data to back those statements up?
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Dionysus

Are gun owners statistically more likely to get shot and killed?

For the United States, Yes.

Also, people who think someone might try to rob or shoot them are very likely to buy guns. Which creates a strong selection bias effect to the statistic.

Among gun owners who are more likely to be shot are people whose store has been robbed or burglarized, former police officers and prosecuting attorneys who are the targets of criminals they arrested and convicted, people who transport or sell high value items like jewelry (wholesale jewelry salespeople who travel are a favorite target), musical equipment (musicians and roadies), etc.

People in the entertainment and political fields often have firearms because they are the targets of stalkers and/or crazies. If you are making huge amounts of money, you can hire extensive and expensive security. https://www.quora.com/Are-gun-owners-statistically-more-likely-to-get-shot-and-killed


Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which shows that the majority of firearm deaths in the U.S. are by suicide, and most suicides are committed with the deceased's own gun.

David Hemenway, a public health professor at Harvard University, looked at 2009 specifically and noted that the CDC figures show 18,735 firearm suicides; 11,493 firearm homicides; and some 554 unintentional firearm deaths. "The large majority of firearm suicides use their own (or the family gun), while the large majority of firearm homicides are shot with someone else’s gun," Hemenway said.

"What Biden seems to be saying," Braman wrote, "is that the likelihood that you will shoot someone with a gun you buy in self-defense is smaller than the likelihood that you (or someone in your household) will be shot with that same gun. That is technically true unless you start excluding suicides, etc. -- then I don't know -- and he's got a point: guns most often injure people in the gun owner's household, not an intruder or stranger.

"But it is also potentially misleading in two ways. First, it suggests that people who buy guns are more likely to be harmed than protected by a gun they buy. We just don't have good data on that. … Second, it suggests that the harms people are suffering are at the hands of others, when (as I pointed out before) most of the time it is a suicide or suicide attempt."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/apr/16/joe-biden/biden-says-most-shootings-happen-victims-own-gun/
Edited by Dionysus, Jun 7 2018, 04:15 PM.
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Ngc1514

Siris
May 19 2018, 03:54 PM
What about home security? What do you all think of the use of firearms for home defense? Do you think there are better means of home defense or not (my family doesn't own firearms, but we do have security cameras around the house and, I'm pretty sure, a security system)? What do the stats say?
On the principle that it is always better to prevent a shooting engagement than to have one, home security is at the top of my list. You may succeed in entering our home, but I will be awake and aware before you breach the perimeter and you will hear enough alarms to know that as a fact.

Should you decide to ignore these warnings, there is a .45 easily accessible in the bedroom and a locked, solid core door you must break through to gain access. Come through that door and you will be greeted by the .45.

As far as concealed or open carry, I have been a city dweller for most of my life and never felt the need to carry a firearm. Using reasonable precautions and constant situational awareness, I have never been a victim of street crime.
Edited by Ngc1514, Jun 8 2018, 05:14 AM.
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