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April 06th, 2008: Changes and Legacies
Topic Started: Apr 6 2008, 07:54 PM (1,577 Views)
Nick
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Founder and Major Domo
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I discuss the nature of change, and the reality of Toonami's legacy.

http://www.toonamifan.com/toonamichangelegacy.html
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Rizwan the Captive Member
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I'm Not Into Labels...the First
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Well said Nick. You're right, even if we brought Toonami back, it might not mesmerize us the way it did years ago. We'd still appreciate it, but not nearly as much. Like you said, that's the nature of change. However, I still think even that is worth fighting for. For a small smile, for a nostalgic sigh, for all things that made Toonami special for us, I'll hope.
But what about the next gen? What about Zeo's little sister? What about all the kids who only began tuning in not too long ago? Don't they deserve to see Toonami as it once was, or at least something like what it once was? They should be able to feel what we did years ago. That too is worth fighting for.
I know you're not saying that that stuff isn't important or anything like that, I would never question you devotion or anything of the sort. How dare you make such a heinous accusation! I'm just saying it's there. I know no one has layed down their arms just yet. And I agree, if Toonami is not in the cards, so be it. As you mentioned, we had the privilege of witnessing the birth and evolution of an era, and we just might see the end. I'm still working my way toward that contention you mentioned. Let's hope we all find it before the end(?).
Well done Nick.
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Sketch
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The sad truth is Toonami can never be what it was. Only someone like us fans would know how to recreate that, probably even Akins and Demarco don't remember how great Toonami once was and they made it.

We can't except CN to suddenly wake up and smell the roses.

They're going to program the block the way they see fit.

Honestly I don't know how I would react if Toonami left the airwaves. I don't think I'd be sad, maybe I wouldn't even be angry but I don't think I could just look back on it's 11 years and smile because I'll always wonder "what could have been".

A person really shouldn't be so attached to an animation block or even a channel or TV in general but there is just something about Toonami that clicks with me. Even in it's most pathetic state.

I've grown up a lot though. I don't have the time I use to have to watch all the cartoons I liked. I can't say I'd make time for Toonami if it was back on weekdays because recording 2 hours of programing every afternoon starts to fill up the 'ol DVR. And I think I'd be perfectly content without television at this point in my life much less when I get older. But I'll always like cartoons, especially action cartoons because I believe animation can tell stories nothing else can.

But if there is any reason to preserve Toonami it's to give kids today some semblence of the enjoyment we had when we were younger. They deserve a "better cartoon" show too. If this new aciton block accomplishes that then I'll be happy and only a small part of me will be dissapointed that Toonami doesn't uphold it's own legacy but it's never had a worthy successor so perhaps if there was a worthy successor it could pass the torch and fade away.

What truly bothers me about this situation is that Toonami doesn't seem to be bowing out. It looks like CN will keep it around just to ignore it and fill it with garbage. Never giving it peace, never letting it die with dignitiy. So by the time they finally throw it away it will do so with no one noticing or caring. I'd rather Toonami dissapear right now then continue to be treated like an afterthought. But for now I can't give up on it. There's always hope for a better tommorow. All it takes is a bit of effort.

There's no reason why Toonami has to air crap even when it's limited to anime. There's good shows out there. All they need to do is notice them and look beyond the toy pushing shounen towards animation that has more character. That's what made Toonami great in the days of Outlaw Star and Tenchi Muyo. It can make Toonami great again if CN would just give it a try. It's not like Adult Swim is making efforts to fill that niche.
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macattack
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Watch Your Head.
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I think that Toonami can not only be what it once was, but it can advance beyond what it has been, even at its best, and can fulfill its full potential. All that it needs is love and support and it will be able to accomplish what it can potentially do. The lineups of 2000-01 came ridiculously close to fulfilling Toonami's destiny (the best Batman and Superman animated incarnation salongside Outlaw Star, DBZ, and Tenchi? WIN), though the lineups of March-June 2003, April-August 2004, and fall 2005 were no slouches by any means either.

The miracle, though, is that I nevertheless became attached to a block that I had no business attaching to. I was not exposed to Toonami in its prime. I never saw Gundam Wing, Sailor Moon, or experienced many brand-new episodes of DBZ and Dragonball. I only saw the final days of TOM 2, and I know TOM 3 the best. But, somehow, I grew to love the block, and the shows that aired on it almost universally.

There is no way I'd be able to consistently follow Toonami if it aired on weekdays. I'm happy where it is: on Saturday nights. Toonami can make the perfect bridge between the light-hearted programming airing elsewhere on the network and the cruder, more "adult" material of Adult Swim.

If Toonami cannot accomplish that, and its successor can, then by all means I'd support the successor. If the Friday block can become what Toonami can never be, I'd support that block. I'd watch it. If it becomes the new home of the best action cartoons I'd follow it.

But I still would rather it be Toonami. While any successor block can be good, Toonami is something else.

It is special.

It gives you the feeling of belonging that no other programming block in TV history has managed to remotely accomplish.

I feel that Toonami, even an all North American or all-anime Toonami, can still do that, and that's why I want the block returned to 4 hours or even expanded to 5 so it can accomplish that goal. No segregation between national origins. Just the best aired equally.

CN can still make Toonami great again, in terms of atmosphere and programming. It just needs to make an effort.

But will it?
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billyarnie
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3... TOM 3!
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Andrew
Apr 6 2008, 08:55 PM
The sad truth is Toonami can never be what it was. Only someone like us fans would know how to recreate that, probably even Akins and Demarco don't remember how great Toonami once was and they made it.

We can't except CN to suddenly wake up and smell the roses.

They're going to program the block the way they see fit.

Honestly I don't know how I would react if Toonami left the airwaves.

A person really shouldn't be so attached to an animation block or even a channel or TV in general but there is just something about Toonami that clicks with me. Even in it's most pathetic state.

I've grown up a lot though. But I'll always like cartoons, especially action cartoons because I believe animation can tell stories nothing else can.

But if there is any reason to preserve Toonami it's to give kids today some semblence of the enjoyment we had when we were younger. They deserve a "better cartoon" show too. If this new aciton block accomplishes that then I'll be happy and only a small part of me will be dissapointed that Toonami doesn't uphold it's own legacy but it's never had a worthy successor so perhaps if there was a worthy successor it could pass the torch and fade away.

What truly bothers me about this situation is that Toonami doesn't seem to be bowing out. It looks like CN will keep it around just to ignore it and fill it with garbage. Never giving it peace, never letting it die with dignitiy. So by the time they finally throw it away it will do so with no one noticing or caring.

There's no reason why Toonami has to air crap even when it's limited to anime. There's good shows out there. All they need to do is notice them and look beyond the toy pushing shounen towards animation that has more character. It can make Toonami great again if CN would just give it a try. It's not like Adult Swim is making efforts to fill that niche.

First, excellent article, Nick. As you & Andrew have eloquently stated, things change, people & their perspectives change, and time marches on. I guess the Toonami vets want to have something positive to pass on to the newbies. We want them to know that not only was Toonami awesome with the block's approach & packaging, but it was during a time when Cartoon Network was "the best place for cartoons". At least in the early days... Not only did Toonami rule the weekdays, but CN made a dent in primetime with funny, hip, ingeniuous, and even artistic shows.

The Roll Call: I'll just link to the Cartoon Cartoons Wiki page for this. In addition, shows that weren't labeled Cartoon Cartoons belong to this Roll Call. Some Toonami fans know well:

Samurai Jack, Star Wars: Clone Wars [Genndy Tartakoysky's original 2-D, not Star Wars: The Clone Wars, Lucasfilm's 3-D that CN's hot for], Megas XLR, Batman & Superman [The Animated Series], Justice League, JLU, Teen Titans... whew! Just go to CN's Wiki page, OK? It's not a perfect list; everyone has comedy favorites & action favorites. Some original & some borrowed from other networks & even other countries. The point is: Cartoon Network was The Home for animation, classic & new from almost anywhere on the planet.

Toonami continued that legacy, focusing on action animation. In the process, Toonami created its own legacy that we champion & we feel has been deserted in recent times. The parts of your post I quoted, Andrew, I feel most deeply about & pretty much agree with you.

  • Cartoon Network will do what they want & what they consider is the best for business.
  • I hate to say it, but ever since October 2007, I've considered Toonami to be in a brain-dead coma. If CN officially decided to "pull the plug", I'd feel relieved & believe closure was achieved.
  • If the new block provides a "better cartoon show", I'll be happy too, but it won't quite feel the same, especially if the new block is "just" a block. Toonami quickly became more that a block & even Cartoon Cartoon Fridays became a little more that "just" the Friday premiere night.
  • My worse fear? CN doesn't "pull the plug" & leaves Toonami a shell of its former self. It continues as "the Saturday night anime block"; even if they tease us once a year or so through TOM the Toonami Engine & Friends. Adult Swim Action doesn't even get teased or taunted anymore. I don't even know if Saturdays are still listed as "No Sucking"...
  • Even though Shin Chan is having premieres on Saturday, that now only leaves 4 Hours of [as] anime on Saturday nights. Plus the daily dose of the InuYasha Hour 7 days a week, [adult swim] only has 11 hours of anime a week. If Toonami is in a coma, ACTN is awake & fighting, but it's a hard fight. As you said, Cartoon Network will do what they want.
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Zera
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Wow that was deep. If Toonami dies then let it be, but I just wish it would go out with a bang.

From what we learn from Toonami, the least we can do is somehow apply it to what ever we do in our futures....Man I feel a bit silly but I'm feeling a bit emotional right now
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tytheartist
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Future Animator & Innovator
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Wow, that hit home.

With the recent upfront I've even begun to question if this is toonami's time to go. And while I pray it isnt, if it is I'm proud to say I got to experience it.

Whether it goes or stays, I'm here until the end,


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sonofnight
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Toonami Faithful for Life
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I'm not ready to see Toonami go. But if it does, hopefully it goes out with a bang. As of now, who knows what's going to happen next?
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billyarnie
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3... TOM 3!
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Young or old, does Toonami Fan want to see it go? IMHO, with a BANG, NOT with a lame whimper... Again, we want to see what it can be, and what it was. Not what it is now!
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Rizwan the Captive Member
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I'm Not Into Labels...the First
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Okay, so I guess we're all in this to the end, whenever it may come. It's great that we have so many passionate members who are united in this stuff and feel so strongly about it. I have a feeling this will be a pleasure. Well, Toonami Faithful, let's see where this takes us...
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Linkpre
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It's difficult to really respond to. I mean, if Toonami does die, I'll get over it, but I'll be most likely frustated. It's survived this long just to be cut down like it was nothing?

All things come to a end, but I'd like to see Toonami end strong.
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jayngfet
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Revolutionary
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well, even if toonami dies I'm not giving up, even if CN capsizes I'm not giving up, so long as one cartoon isn't at it's prime I'm still fighting.

look around you, this isn't just a few faced robots, we have a slimeless nickalodian here.
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billyarnie
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3... TOM 3!
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jayngfet
Apr 10 2008, 01:47 PM
look around you, this isn't just a few faced robots, we have a slimeless nickalodian here.

Not quite, but I understand your frustration toward not only Toonami, but Cartoon Network. Jeff Harris had an article at TheXBridge.com about 3 years ago: The Amoebaization of Cartoon Network. Be patient; it's an 8-page article. CN isn't a slimeless Nick yet, but, IMHO, if they really wanted to follow the model, they're not there yet. Could they? Yes & I have an idea for Jeff, if he wants it. Should They?! Not if they honestly want to be Cartoon Network... who knows? *sigh*
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jayngfet
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billyarnie
Apr 10 2008, 08:19 PM
jayngfet
Apr 10 2008, 01:47 PM
look around you, this isn't just a few faced robots, we have a slimeless nickalodian here.

Not quite, but I understand your frustration toward not only Toonami, but Cartoon Network. Jeff Harris had an article at TheXBridge.com about 3 years ago: The Amoebaization of Cartoon Network. Be patient; it's an 8-page article. CN isn't a slimeless Nick yet, but, IMHO, if they really wanted to follow the model, they're not there yet. Could they? Yes & I have an idea for Jeff, if he wants it. Should They?! Not if they honestly want to be Cartoon Network... who knows? *sigh*

I was referring to actual nickalodean there, but the comparison stands

on to my point, recently I caught old episodes of pokemon and an episode of new pokemon, and for comparison watched both tenchi muyo and bakugan, rugrats and all grown up...


...things are getting worse all around, it wasn't youth's awe, it's actual quality going down, so no, even if toonami goes down, there's more than one battle in this war.
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