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April 15th, 2008: Toonami Hits Anime Punch
Topic Started: Apr 15 2008, 07:00 PM (1,730 Views)
Nick
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Founder and Major Domo
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History brings us tales of Toonami from Anime Punch '08.

http://www.toonamifan.com/toonamipunchpanel.html
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macattack
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Wow, it's a really detailed look at running a panel. It looks really difficult but it can be rewarding, which is somewhat what I was expecting in that area. I'm pleasantly surprised that, despite the circumstances, there are still people interested in Toonami and were willing to talk and discuss Toonami with you.

I personally would have delayed the panel for a bit to get a tech guy to hook up the projector and just skimp on the less important stuff, but that's just me. I wasn't there, I'm in no position to question your decisions on that matter.
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Jeff Harris
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Anime conventions are anything BUT conventional. However, that could be said of any other kind of convention. It's just that anime fans in general are so . . . what's a proper way to say it without sounding bad . . . too rabid. A lot of them like Japanese animation and ONLY Japanese animation. Still, we're all a little mad about something sometimes.

I just happen to like good animation, nevermind where it came from.

Toonami is the reason why anime is a major industry in this country instead of a niche market like it was back in the 80s and early 90s, and perhaps History could have at least acknowledged that (that's kind of a symbolic statement if you think about it hard enough). But the thing is many anime fans tend to forget that their love of anime began with that classic afternoon block.

That could be a topic for next time. Discuss the significance of Toonami on the anime industry as a whole.

I do agree that the Saturday evening block doesn't have the same feel as the weekday afternoon block did. The daily block seemed to swim through the week with new shows and repeats of favorites. The Saturday block had presented more mature shows and shorter fare that couldn't be shown with the space of the weekday block, meaning shorter shows will last and last until people are tired of them. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

That could also be a topic for next time. Discuss the strengths and weaknesses of both the daily and Saturday blocks and which one really worked for each kind of show. IMO, the daily block worked best for a long-range series like DBZ and Batman, but the Saturday block worked best for something like DBGT as well as something that keeps you locked in for weeks like Naruto does.

History, if you don't mind me asking, what short didn't you know the name of for the original lineup? I don't think it was Superman, Birdman, nor Space Ghost, so it had to have been Mightor, Shazzan, Galaxy Trio, Dino Boy, The Impossibles, Frankenstein Jr., or Moby Dick. All of those were there in the first months of Toonami. Birdman was the only short properly marked as a Toonami series in the promos, but it wasn't the only Super Adventures/Cartoon Roulette short present on the block.

Also, did you mention Beast Wars in your Transformers dialogue? It was only on for a week back in 1998, but it was a great week. World premiere episodes at that. It always bugged me that the original Transformers never got a Toonami run, though G.I. Joe did.

I'm probably in the minority, but I think that SD Gundam should have been made. However, it didn't need to be made like a pseudo-preschool cartoon in a happy, happy cel-shaded 3D world. If it was straight-forward traditionally-animated parody in the tradition of something like, say, DuelMasters, or even a pseudo-parody like Teen Titans (it wasn't serious like the DCAU shows but it wasn't a comedy either), then maybe it could have been received better. It was the first Gundam series to premiere outside of Japan, but I think the show's lack of success (and Cartoon Network's pointing the fingers directly at Bandai) was probably one of the reasons Bandai and Cartoon Network are strained outside of Adult Swim.

That could be another topic.

I know you don't like me much, History, but I could be a friend. I have so much to offer if you ever need some assistance.
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sonofnight
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I've never been to one before, but I hope to go one day. It looks like I'd have an interesting time. I also find the comparison between Batman and Death Note very interesting...
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The History Follower
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macattack
Apr 15 2008, 10:20 PM
Wow, it's a really detailed look at running a panel. It looks really difficult but it can be rewarding, which is somewhat what I was expecting in that area. I'm pleasantly surprised that, despite the circumstances, there are still people interested in Toonami and were willing to talk and discuss Toonami with you.

I personally would have delayed the panel for a bit to get a tech guy to hook up the projector and just skimp on the less important stuff, but that's just me. I wasn't there, I'm in no position to question your decisions on that matter.


Yeah bunch of work, but a lot more to go to get the panel perfect.
If I had delayed the panel, I would have had to go find a tech guy who could help, get the cable from him, go and move the project to the other room, and set everything up including sound. This could take between 20-30 mintues, during this time most of my auidence probally would have left and I would have been more tired. That's why I just didn't bother finding one.

Jeff Harris
Apr 15 2008, 10:50 PM
Anime conventions are anything BUT conventional. However, that could be said of any other kind of convention. It's just that anime fans in general are so rabid. A lot of them like Japanese animation and ONLY Japanese animation. Still, we're all a little mad about something sometimes.

I just happen to like good animation, nevermind where it came from.
I actually don't know of anyone who likes animation just for being from Japan. I understand only being a fan of anime since 9 times out 10 it's going to be better than what's home grown here. In fact people just tend to try and call any animation they like anime, cause they feel anime is better. So you get American-Anime or French-Anime but really anime is just used to refer to animation from Japan.

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Toonami is the reason why anime is a major industry in this country instead of a niche market like it was back in the 80s and early 90s, and perhaps History could have at least acknowledged that (that's kind of a symbolic statement if you think about it hard enough). But the thing is many anime fans tend to forget that their love of anime began with that classic afternoon block.
Actually a lot do remeber Toonami as the place they got into anime, includeing myself. Of course you can change your statement and say 'anime is the reason Toonami become so big and didn't just remain a bit part on CN.'

Quote:
 
I do agree that the Saturday evening block doesn't have the same feel as the weekday afternoon block did. The daily block seemed to swim through the week with new shows and repeats of favorites. The Saturday block had presented more mature shows and shorter fare that couldn't be shown with the space of the weekday block, meaning shorter shows will last and last until people are tired of them. Both have their strengths and weaknesses.

That could also be a topic for next time. Discuss the strengths and weaknesses of both the daily and Saturday blocks and which one really worked for each kind of show. IMO, the daily block worked best for a long-range series like DBZ and Batman, but the Saturday block worked best for something like DBGT as well as something that keeps you locked in for weeks like Naruto does.
Wait Naruto with what like 8 seasons now isn't a long range series? Or do you not mean 'long range' as lot's of episodes? There were plenty of mature shows on the weekday block and Midnight Run which ran five days as well.

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History, if you don't mind me asking, what short didn't you know the name of for the original lineup?
I just didn't know what shorts they played on the first day I knew most of the shows they did play though.

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Also, did you mention Beast Wars in your Transformers dialogue? It was only on for a week back in 1998, but it was a great week. World premiere episodes at that.
Yes I knew that and did mention it.

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I'm probably in the minority, but I think that SD Gundam should have been made. However, it didn't need to be made like a pseudo-preschool cartoon in a happy, happy cel-shaded 3D world. If it was straight-forward traditionally-animated parody in the tradition of something like, say, DuelMasters, or even a pseudo-parody like Teen Titans, then maybe it could have been received better. It was the first Gundam series to premiere outside of Japan
I think what the person meant was that since it was bad it shouldn't have been made which kind of pointed out. So why do you think it should have been made?
Oh and what was Teen Titans parodiyng?

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I know you don't like me much, History, but I could be a friend. I have so much to offer if you ever need some assistance.
You can help me the most by updateing your website with info about the Toonami more so I can use that info on the panel. And pics I need more pics for the Power Point Presentation.

I made a thread about the article on the con's forum and have gotten some good responses.
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Jeff Harris
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The History Follower
Apr 17 2008, 08:50 PM
Jeff Harris
Apr 15 2008, 10:50 PM
Anime conventions are anything BUT conventional. However, that could be said of any other kind of convention. It's just that anime fans in general are so rabid. A lot of them like Japanese animation and ONLY Japanese animation. Still, we're all a little mad about something sometimes.

I just happen to like good animation, nevermind where it came from.
I actually don't know of anyone who likes animation just for being from Japan. I understand only being a fan of anime since 9 times out 10 it's going to be better than what's home grown here. In fact people just tend to try and call any animation they like anime, cause they feel anime is better. So you get American-Anime or French-Anime but really anime is just used to refer to animation from Japan.

Here's what I have to say about that.

The only reason American animation isn't "better" is because American animators aren't allowed to do what they really want. American animators are capable of making quality programming. They have ideas, stories, and themes they want to explore, not unlike the stuff coming out of Japan. However, the whole corporate mentality in this country is it either has to sell something or be educational. It has to be exclusively for kids or catered to the lowest common denominator. Nothing intelligent, nothing worth watching if your testicles dropped or didn't have sophomoric tendencies.

Japanese animation, for the most part, is more thought-provoking for older audiences than what we have here. But it's not without flaws, as is any animation from other countries. Anime isn't perfect, so let's not pretend it's the end all and be all of everything.

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Actually a lot do remeber Toonami as the place they got into anime, includeing myself.  Of course you can change your statement and say 'anime is the reason Toonami become so big and didn't just remain a bit part on CN.'
It's not the sole reason, mind you. ReBoot played just as big a role in Toonami's early success as did the anime shows. Remember, Toonami was the home of the US premiere of the very popular third season of ReBoot in 1999 and was instrumental in the production of the two ReBoot movies in 2001. Toonami was also the reason ADV Films picked up video rights to ReBoot as well as other Mainframe productions Weird-Ohs and Shadow Raiders. The fans of the DCAU (DC Comics Animated Universe) also contributed to Toonami's early success as well.

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Wait Naruto with what like 8 seasons now isn't a long range series?  Or do you not mean 'long range' as lot's of episodes?  There were plenty of mature shows on the weekday block and Midnight Run which ran five days as well.
Naruto could work on the weekday block, but since the episodes don't run slowly like DBZ did, it also works as a draw for the Saturday block. What worked for DBZ at the time is that FUNimation could solely concentrate on that series without other productions getting in the way. The FUNimation of today couldn't do a daily show like DBZ right now. That's why One Piece is on hiatus. FUNimation and Viz both have multiple shows in productions with many of the same actors.

I want to know more about these "mature shows" on the weekday block. I know about Gundam Wing "uncut," but the bulk of the weekday and TMR lineups were edited programs with accidental profanity (edited on later airings) and very little red bloodshed, not green, black, or purple.

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I think what the person meant was that since (SD Gundam) was bad it shouldn't have been made which kind of pointed out.  So why do you think it should have been made?
Because it should have been a proving ground about whether Americans could handle an original Gundam program first. SD Gundam should have been made, but the execution was off. Instead of something worthy of the Gundam name, we got a cel-shaded CGI series that looked like it was a video rip from a PS1 video game. They could have traditionally animated it and let it be like a comedic actioner in the tradition of Bo^7. If that was successful, perhaps we could have gotten a more serious Gundam series stateside down the line. Instead, SD Gundam not only set Gundam's popularity backwards in the US, but it kind of soured the general relationship between Cartoon Network and Bandai. Not Adult Swim, mind you.

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Oh and what was Teen Titans parodying?
The rubbery animation techniques of numerous anime productions. I could see a lot of FLCL in the animation techniques of Teen Titans. This was the first time since Freakazoid and Road Rovers Warner Bros. did a comedic action series, especially since they could have made Shazam! and Plastic Man a lot earlier. You really ought to have seen the Plastic Man pilot CN paid for but never showed. It was really, really good.

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You can help me the most by updating your website with info about the Toonami more so I can use that info on the panel.  And pics I need more pics for the Power Point Presentation.
I have a Toonami timeline that breaks down the block year by year and according to eras. Next update next week. What kind of pictures do you need? You could find show pictures anywhere. Toonami pictures are harder to come by, but I have some on CDs if you need some.
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The History Follower
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Jeff Harris
Apr 17 2008, 10:07 PM
The only reason American animation isn't "better" is because American animators aren't allowed to do what they really want. American animators are capable of making quality programming. They have ideas, stories, and themes they want to explore, not unlike the stuff coming out of Japan. However, the whole corporate mentality in this country is it either has to sell something or be educational. It has to be exclusively for kids or catered to the lowest common denominator. Nothing intelligent, nothing worth watching if your testicles dropped or didn't have sophomoric tendencies. 

Japanese animation, for the most part, is more thought-provoking for older audiences than what we have here. But it's not without flaws, as is any animation from other countries. Anime isn't perfect, so let's not pretend it's the end all and be all of everything.

Anime isn't the end all and be all of everything, it's just the best animation out there and thanks for explaining why it has an edge over US animation.

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Toonami was also the reason ADV Films picked up video rights to ReBoot as well as other Mainframe productions Weird-Ohs and Shadow Raiders. The fans of the DCAU also contributed to Toonami's early success as well.

See US anime companies know good shows when they see them.

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Naruto could work on the weekday block, but since the episodes don't run slowly like DBZ did, it also works as a draw for the Saturday block. What worked for DBZ at the time is that FUNimation could solely concentrate on that series without other productions getting in the way. The FUNimation of today couldn't do a daily show like DBZ right now. That's why One Piece is on hiatus. FUNimation and Viz both have multiple shows in productions with many of the same actors.
Well back in the day, when a show like One Piece needed a break for more episodes to be dubbed we would just get repeats for a while, like with DBZ and Sailor Moon did.

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I want to know more about these "mature shows" on the weekday block. I know about Gundam Wing "uncut," but the bulk of the weekday and TMR lineups were edited programs with accidental profanity (edited on later airings) and very little red bloodshed, not green, black, or purple. 

Jonny Quest, Robotech, ReBoot, Tenchi, Blue Sub 6, Outlaw Star, Big O, Mobile Suit Gundam, and Rurouni Kenshin were all mature in my opinion. And I don't mean mature in just profanity, blood, and nudity.

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Because it should have been a proving ground about whether Americans could handle an original Gundam program first. SD Gundam should have been made, but the execution was off. Instead of something worthy of the Gundam name, we got a cel-shaded CGI series that looked like it was a video rip from a PS1 video game. They could have traditionally animated it and let it be like a comedic actioner in the tradition of Bo^7. If that was successful, perhaps we could have gotten a more serious Gundam series stateside down the line.

I don't think the guy was talking about SD being an American made Gundam. He was talking about it's actual content, which you admit is bad.

The History Follower
Apr 17 2008, 07:50 PM

Oh and what was Teen Titans parodiyng?

Quote:
 
The rubbery animation techniques of numerous anime productions.
Parody or tribute? There is a difference.
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Jeff Harris
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The History Follower
Apr 19 2008, 07:46 PM
Anime isn't the end all and be all of everything, it's just the best animation out there and thanks for explaining why it has an edge over US animation. 

But the edge is slipping. There are studios producing more mature-themed productions. Warner Bros. and Marvel are producing PG-13-rated direct-to-video action productions as are folks like Lion's Gate and Starz Media. Also, in case you haven't looked, the line between what's "anime" and what isn't is becoming blurred as more Western companies are co-producing and bankrolling Japanese productions. Animation is a global economy, and everywhere you turn, you see co-productions involving two or more countries. Some (repeat: SOME) otaku don't really consider American-funded productions as "real anime," whatever the hell that is. There are some (again, repeating: SOME) that feel that productions like Animatrix, IGPX, Batman: Gotham Knight, the recent Highlander animated movie, and the upcoming Castlevania movie aren't "real anime" despite them being produced at prestigious Japanese studios.

Litmus test: Do you consider "The Boondocks" to be anime?

In the end, there will be no division except one. Good ones and bad ones.

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Well back in the day, when a show like One Piece needed a break for more episodes to be dubbed we would just get repeats for a while, like with DBZ and Sailor Moon did.
Well, back in the day, studios like FUNimation, Bandai, and Pioneer/Geneon produced and edited more than 50 episodes a year. Sailor Moon S and Sailor Moon SuperS had over 80 episodes if you combined the two airings. Gundam Wing and G Gundam both had over 45 episodes with no break between episodes. DBZ had spells of 50 or so episodes at a time. And then they repeat. FUNimation's plate is filled a lot more these days to say the least.

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Jonny Quest, Robotech, ReBoot, Tenchi, Blue Sub 6, Outlaw Star, Big O, Mobile Suit Gundam, and Rurouni Kenshin were all mature in my opinion.  And I don't mean mature in just profanity, blood, and nudity.
I'll agree with every one except Tenchi, which was less comedic than Bo^7 but less mature than Robotech. It had emotion, which is in most Toonami series. I'll add Batman: The Animated Series in that list to boot as well.

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I don't think the guy was talking about SD being an American made Gundam.  He was talking about it's actual content, which you admit is bad.
SD Gundam wasn't American-made. It premiered in America first.

The History Follower
Apr 17 2008, 07:50 PM
Parody or tribute?  There is a difference.
Depends on who you ask. Homages tend to parody as well as pay tribute to something. The Lupin III scene in FLCL for example is an homage. It paid tribute as well as parodied a notable scene from the second series' opening. Teen Titans paid homage to many touchstones of the anime industry. Animation techniques, the oft-kilter unresolved finales, hell, even the theme song, which invokes anime connoctations. Megas XLR, another favorite of mine, was also similar to Teen Titans in that aspect. It had numerous homages in the series that also paid tribute and parodied many anime standards and characters. You can't take a giant robot that has the Space Cruiser Yamato in its chest seriously nor the concept of a battleship floating in space itself.
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