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October 21st, 2008: So What Happens Now
Topic Started: Oct 21 2008, 01:24 PM (3,692 Views)
Nick
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Postmortem commentary from Mackenzie, on the nature of things to come.

http://www.toonamifan.com/toonamiwhathappens.html
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billyarnie
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Excellent post-mortum by Mackenzie. I've posted similar things that I'm about to post again... but I wonder if they matter anymore. I'm going to start with some new things before I revisit the old saws...

  • CN has Message Boards for 2 of their new action shows! Actually... they are just Comment Pages like Toonami Jetstream has had for a while. SW:TCW & B:TB&TB (Batman comments Coming Soon) are doing this; maybe if any new shows, comedy or action have Show Pages, this feature will be there as well. Besides the issue of a Real Forum like this one or the Adult Swim Message Boards excluding anyone under 13, it's a false method for feedback. Most of the comments are like Jetstream: "OMG I Love [insert show here]!" There are some diehards like here & on the ASMB that buck the trend... "Bring Back One Piece/Dragon Ball/DBZ"... "Put on Mew Mew Power/Yu-Gi-Oh". And here's a comment dear to our hearts: "Seriously, put some Toonami bumps on Jetstream, please."
  • Toonami was shut down because compared to Cartoon Network Fridays... BTW, that's what "You Are Here" is called on CN Video... Flash, D & even TOM4, my infamous "TOM-as the Toonami Engine" ;) are at least Ten Times Cooler than "King Nood"! Memo to CN: Whatever you call your Friday Block... it's Still LAME! The shows are good... but the Block can NEVER hold a candle to what was your Premiere Action Brand for 10.5 years. Goosebumps was the Beginning of the End... :angry: :(

    OK, I'm Done with the New & Now for the Old...
  • Toonami was also shut down because the name Toonami has become associated with Anime instead of Action. I won't rehash Toonami history as most of you understand it. In the end, even that argument was as much an excuse as "poor ratings" was. CN would rather start "fresh" than try to give Akins & DeMarco a chance to try something else labeled Toonami.
  • I don't have any faith that Cartoon Network and/or its late-night block [adult swim] will ever seek to give Anime a fair chance. Except for showcasing 2 anime on Dynamite Action Squad Saturday mornings, the rest of that Action block is encores/reruns. Those same 2 anime run weekdays in out of the way slots. Mac already mentioned Naruto, which seems to be now averaging 1 filler episode every other week as opposed to the Filler Hour of 2 eps on Toonami. If Toonami had remained in its final format, Naruto would have ended with Episode #220 at the End of February 2009. If 1 filler ep continues to be shown bi-weekly as now... the End is reached in Mid-July 2009!
  • [adult swim] Action isn't much better... Only 3 Premiering shows... 2 of them airing Premieres in the 5:00 AM (4:00 CT) Hour! Yes, Moribito is one of them... :angry: 2 other well-known anime are still on the schedule; 1 is getting a slightly new lease on life at a good time... unless you consider going against the opening half-hour of SNL... in an Presidential Election Season! The other show still has diehard fans that will watch in the 5:00 AM hour Monday through Saturday mornings.
  • IMHO, CN has resigned itself to 3rd Place... even with Star Wars: The Clone Wars! And even with its own MMORPG, FusionFall, scheduled to debut (late) Fall 2008, featuring most of its recognizable characters "Anime-fied", CN will still run ads for Disney's Pirates of the Carribbean Online, like it ran ads during Toonami & [as] on Saturday nights for Nickelodeon's Avatar Book 3 DVD's. Even SW:TCW ads (a CN show) were running for a while on [adult swim]... but Heaven, the PTC & AFA Forbid any [as] ads running on Cartoon Network!
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Zipper
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That was a great article. Pretty much echoed everything I've been thinking about the demise of Toonami and the current state of CN.

One sad mention in the article was the fact that ALL of TV has become like this. I wonder if I'm not saying this just because I'm an adult now, but there is no soul ANYWHERE to be found on television anymore. Nothing that just grabs you, and is memorable. Nothing that screams "you're in good hands for the next [X] hours." Everything is just sort of...there. Like Mac said, yeah there's good stuff and bad stuff just like anything else, but it's sad that there's no longer any connection with the audience. I find that odd in the age that we're in. You'd think that with the advent of the internet and its emergence into the mainstream, you'd see MORE interactive stuff on TV that's really in-touch with the audience, not less. So I'm not sure what's going on there, but it certainly is the rut that Cartoon Network has fallen into. It's such a shame since we all know what the network used to be.

The reason I brought up adulthood in my last paragraph was because everything that I found to be particularly memorable happened during my childhood. In the early 90s we had amazing blocks like TGIF on ABC, all the amazing kids blocks in the morning and afternoons on almost every channel (Disney Afternoon, UPN Kids, Amazin' Adventures (BKN), Kids'WB, SNICK, and what I thought was the king of standard kids' blocks, Fox Kids). Of course, Toonami transcended all of that and was in a league of its own. But onto the point, I wonder if kids today are getting any sort of connection out of what they're seeing on TV these days. They don't seem to have much of anything like we did. If they don't have cable then they're pretty much SOL. There are no longer any good kids blocks on TV anymore except for Saturday mornings and those are dominated by one company (that's not really putting out much of anything good). Everything else seems to have to be E/I rated and have some kind of educational content which I find ridiculous. As for cable, every time I flick past Nickelodeon (and I mean EVERY TIME) all I ever see is SpongeBob, or maybe Drake and Josh or iCarly (whatever that is). Don't the kids get tired of it? Every time I turn on CN all I see is Johnny Test, Chowder or Flapjack. It's just the same stuff over and over. Disney Channel is the Hanna Montana channel. The only thing that I see worth watching these days for kids is Jetix, which at least has some variety. They've got a combination of new and old shows which widens its appeal. But apparently that's being canceled early next year, too.

So what do kids have to get connected to anymore? I guess they don't care. They're probably eating up everything that's being fed to them. Hell, we would have too if we were kids growing up now. Fortunately we grew up during a much better time. We had real variety. I guess as an adult now, I kind of miss that connection, which is ANOTHER reason why I was sad to see Toonami go.
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billyarnie
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BTW, I meant to make this part of my original post, but I think it's appropriate here. In response to the final clip with Moltar's classic question, "IS TOONAMI A FAILED EXPERIMENT? DESTINED FOR DESTRUCTION":

Toonami is not the "Failed Experiment"... Cartoon Network is. Toonami was never "Destined for Destruction"... but Anime may be on [adult swim] if CN continues its current path. 19 new episodes of Naruto left & 20 new episodes of Bleach (& no announcement yet that new dubbed episodes will be acquired past #104, leaving viewers in the middle of a Filler Arc). Moribito has its 18 new episodes left & Code Geass has 26 new episodes left (the conclusion of S1 & the 25 episodes of R2)... which will probably remain @5:00 AM!

If they are really not paying attention to the ASMB anymore, except to put pictures of tattoos, fan arts & crafts, etc. on TV, all related to Comedy shows, then the ASMB is only a place for fans to communicate their faves & hates to each other, and rant at [as]... who will notice them as much as CN notices their Show Comment pages. The answer? The name of an anime character... ZERO!
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Linkpre
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I've accepted Toonami's cancellation. While I believe it could have lasted a few more years, I'm happy it went out acknowledging all of it's fans. Don't think I've seen that before. It lasted a good 11 years.

What i don't like is that Toonami fans are being called delusional or sad because they wanted to see Toonami succeed. There's a certain four or five members over at a certain message board that respond to every single little Toonami topic basically saying that people should get over it and Toonami was just a block. Then they type their little "it's all ratings" speech and leave to say the same thing in another topic.

Now for the most part I can sorta agree with them, but I do know that some people had a good connection with the block, as "sad" as that sounds. It may have been a way for them to escape the pressures of life. Anyways, they are gonna need a bit more time to heal and I hate seeing them ridiculed constantly.
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Zipper
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I laugh whenever I see somebody say "it's not healthy for you to be saddened over Toonami's death." I really don't think there's anybody THAT depressed that it's gone that it'd affect their health. *laughs*
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tytheartist
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First time I whole heartedly agree with an article ever on toonami fan.

The cancellation did seem kind of abrupt and out of nowhere. Jeff said he knew it was happening, but that just couldve been him predicting. And I love how you ended it; Cartoon Network is just there. Either way, you write a good article Mackenzie.




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spiritgun
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That was a great article. A month later and I still miss it. Had to watch some of those old speeches and stuff in the youtube links.
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Metal Corpse
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Unlike most people I hold no ill will towards Cartoon Network. Toonami was Cartoon Network's idea and unfortunately it was time for it to go. What I can't stand is everyone getting mad at Cartoon Network for canceling it yet before then, they made tons of 'Toonami Sucks' videos on YouTube and other video hosting sites.
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tytheartist
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Metal Corpse, what you described is a textbook case of people coming out of the woodwork for something once its gone. Not the greatest thing. But your amongst faithful and friends who have stayed devoted to the block.

But I do hold ill will toward cartoon network. haha, not because of toonami though, for other reasons... hehehe
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Zipper
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I actually understand quite well why some people are mad at it's canceling even though they were bashing it before. They were bashing it for good reason, since the block was not worth much at all in its last couple years, more so in its last months. But those people who were bashing it were angry at CN's horrible treatment of the block, since we all know that it didn't have to end this way and that Toonami could have been still a popular and relevant block if treated correctly. If the block had to continue being the way it was before it got canceled then no, I'm not mad that they canceled it. But it should be clear to anyone that it didn't have to happen, and that's where the anger comes from.
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tytheartist
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True Zipper
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sonofnight
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At least there was something to look forward to more than anything else I watch on TV. Toonami gave me hope, and will always be a part of my life. I've come to terms with the fact that it's gone. But I would have liked to seen Cartoon Network at least acknowledge its worth. That's the sad part about it. For me, Toonami was too good for CN to let it blow away in the end. Like this article states CN is just there. I too hold ill will towards them for Toonami, and other things they've screwed with. CN hardly holds any relevance for me, and my hope for a better Cartoon Network seems to be but a flickering flame on a cold, windy night.
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Raidon Makoto
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billyarnie
Oct 22 2008, 01:18 AM
And here's a comment dear to our hearts: "Seriously, put some Toonami bumps on Jetstream, please."

For the record, that was me. ;)

This article essentially summarizes how I felt about Toonami's cancellation and how I still feel. It makes me wonder how such idiots can get to executive positions, while intelligent people like Sean and Jason are no longer to work their television magic.
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Metal Corpse
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Raidon Makoto
Nov 9 2008, 09:52 PM
billyarnie
Oct 22 2008, 01:18 AM
And here's a comment dear to our hearts:  "Seriously, put some Toonami bumps on Jetstream, please."

For the record, that was me. ;)

This article essentially summarizes how I felt about Toonami's cancellation and how I still feel. It makes me wonder how such idiots can get to executive positions, while intelligent people like Sean and Jason are no longer to work their television magic.

Are they really idiots? Or are they simply people moving in a direction that you're unhappy with?
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Raidon Makoto
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Metal Corpse
Nov 10 2008, 02:39 AM
Raidon Makoto
Nov 9 2008, 09:52 PM
billyarnie
Oct 22 2008, 01:18 AM
And here's a comment dear to our hearts:  "Seriously, put some Toonami bumps on Jetstream, please."

For the record, that was me. ;)

This article essentially summarizes how I felt about Toonami's cancellation and how I still feel. It makes me wonder how such idiots can get to executive positions, while intelligent people like Sean and Jason are no longer to work their television magic.

Are they really idiots? Or are they simply people moving in a direction that you're unhappy with?

They are truly idiots. In Japan, if you put Luffy's face on anything, there is a market for it. CN had the chance to rebuild One Piece in America, but instead of advertising it, let it die. Its not Toonami's fault it had low ratings, its Cartoon Networks'. Toonami had some of the highest ratings on CN back when it was advertised, and with its awesome programming, it could have had that same acclaim, but didn't, because CN is full of idiots.
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jayngfet
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It still feels like yesterday for me too, I still think "did it have to be this way", and catch myself on saturdays, reminding myself there is no toonami.

You know, I've always wanted to get into animation. CN if I could help it. Maybe I could pitch a new toonami to the future CEO. If not then I'll do my best to create a new block to represent interactivity, phat beats, advanced robotics, and epic shows.

It may have ended yesterday but we can still hope for tomorrow.

And yes, I feel like an idiot for this too, I hoped and prayed for a reberth, I made a youtube group, signed petitions, got people interested. Nothing.
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Raidon Makoto
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jayngfet
Nov 23 2008, 12:34 AM
It still feels like yesterday for me too, I still think "did it have to be this way", and catch myself on saturdays, reminding myself there is no toonami.

You know, I've always wanted to get into animation. CN if I could help it. Maybe I could pitch a new toonami to the future CEO. If not then I'll do my best to create a new block to represent interactivity, phat beats, advanced robotics, and epic shows.

It may have ended yesterday but we can still hope for tomorrow.

And yes, I feel like an idiot for this too, I hoped and prayed for a reberth, I made a youtube group, signed petitions, got people interested. Nothing.

The last stand of defiance is just beginning, my friend. Our final hope and salvation lies in Toonami Jetstream. Right now, I can see only four options.

One; A Toonami Faithful gets a majority share in Time Warner. Two; There is a coup in Cartoon Network by a Toonami Faithful. Three; Because of Time Warner's upcoming stock unsplitting, the company breaks in into many segments, and Williams Street gets out with the [adult swim] and Toonami brand, and creates their own network. Four; Jetstream performs well and it is either expanded to include TOM or puts Toonami back on TV.

The last two seem the most likely to me. I will do my best to see the fourth option's success. Look for a secret project by me in a couple of weeks. ;)
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jayngfet
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The faithful taking over is a good longtime goal. There were millions of viewers at one time. We need the whole of two of those in office.

Meanwhile, we keep people interested with toonami revolution, a good anime stream with some sparse 3d animation and and maybe an online comic could do wonders for us.

I can see us taking over in roughly a decade(hey, getting in a position where we can bargain won't be easy).

Of course we'd need to pick someone to be a high exec, maybe two. A CEO and Scheduler.


It's a tall order of an exotic drink, but if others are willing to try I'm willing to try and fill it.
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Raidon Makoto
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jayngfet
Nov 23 2008, 02:17 AM
The faithful taking over is a good longtime goal. There were millions of viewers at one time. We need the whole of two of those in office.

Meanwhile, we keep people interested with toonami revolution, a good anime stream with some sparse 3d animation and and maybe an online comic could do wonders for us.

I can see us taking over in roughly a decade(hey, getting in a position where we can bargain won't be easy).

Of course we'd need to pick someone to be a high exec, maybe two. A CEO and Scheduler.


It's a tall order of an exotic drink, but if others are willing to try I'm willing to try and fill it.

Heh, we'll see how well that goes. I think there was someone at Toon Zone that said he had the qualifications to work at CN.

Anyways, the VP of Scheduling and Acquisitions' job opened up a couple of years ago, and just about anyone was able to apply. I'm sure the same thing will happen again once someone steps down.
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jayngfet
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Yes, but we need to make shure the right person gets the job.

Anyone know those qualifications?
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Raidon Makoto
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jayngfet
Nov 23 2008, 09:46 PM
Yes, but we need to make shure the right person gets the job.

Anyone know those qualifications?

Essentially, you have to have worked in the industry a couple of years. I don't think you need any prior qualifications (besides maybe a Bachelors) to work in the television business. Turner offers internships to College kids, so essentially, you'd have to start there.
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jayngfet
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So a bachelors in what?
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Raidon Makoto
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jayngfet
Nov 23 2008, 10:25 PM
So a bachelors in what?

I think just having the Bachelors is enough, provided its in something relevant-ish. Like Business.
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jayngfet
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Really, I was going to get into animation anyway, I'll try to aim for a high position in CN.

Of course there's still one problem.

We need two people at least for two positions. One for Scheduling and one for CEO or something else higher up.


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Raidon Makoto
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jayngfet
Nov 24 2008, 02:03 PM
Really, I was going to get into animation anyway, I'll try to aim for a high position in CN.

Of course there's still one problem.

We need two people at least for two positions. One for Scheduling and one for CEO or something else higher up.

Hah, I'll try for CEO then. ;)
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jayngfet
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Of course, I'm still in high school so it would take me a while. But I can try scheduler when I graduate.

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8th MS eVolution
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What we need is less stupid people running at Cartoon Network.

I dont know if im getting old or if Cartoon Network's just had a massive paycut but i feel like i could do so much more than the current peeps at CN. Jay and Raidon look like they could run buisness.
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