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Advanced Cartography Act 2015 (Yukon)
Topic Started: May 12 2015, 10:07 PM (232 Views)
Arcadia
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Preamble: The intention of this Act is to provide clear statutory grounds for the creation, establishment and maintenance of additional planets within the Yukon Canon RP.

Article 1 - Precedent and Existing Law
1.1) This Act is subordinate to the Cartography Act 2015 (Yukon) except where it specifically amends that Act.
1.2) This Act works in direct cohesion with the Cartography Act 2015 (Yukon) and is intended as a direct extension of that Act.

Article 2 - Amendments
2.1) Amending #Ref 3.1 of the Cartography Act as follows:

  • 1) #Ref 3.1.1 shall be amended to include: 'The Minister for Cartography may establish elements of natural history and fact regarding Yukon at their discretion; any such elements are subject to the authority of the RPMT.'
  • 2) #Ref 3.1.2 shall be amended to read: 'The species of flora and fauna found on Yukon are considered to be the same as those found on modern day Earth. However additional unique species may be created with approval by the RPMT, or by the Minister for Cartography subject to RPMT authority.'
  • 3) #Ref 3.1.3 shall be amended to include: 'All associated calculations of area and distance shall be considered in line with this Act, insofar as they are mathematically correct.'
  • 4) #Ref 3.1.6 shall be amended to include: 'Roa shall be considered uninhabitable and the source of 'native' cultures. Aisoth shall be habitable and open for new territorial claims at the Minister for Cartography's discretion.'
  • 5) #Ref 3.1.7 shall be amended to read: 'Yukon is located in the Exodite System, orbiting the star Exodus. The initial details of the system and its planets shall be set by the Cartographer.'

2.2) Amending #Ref 3.2 and subsequent Sections as follows:

  • 1) #Ref 3.2 shall be removed and the power outlined here consolidated by implication into #Ref 3.1.1.
  • 2) #Ref 3.3 and its subordinates shall be relabeled under 3.2

2.3) #Ref 3.4 shall be removed and the power outlined here consolidated by implication into #Ref 3.1.1.
2.4) #Ref 2.6 shall be removed as obsolete and impractical and replaced with 'In the event that a person is deemed inactive in role play by the Cartographer, their territory shall be marked accordingly and may be claimed.'
2.5) #Ref 2.3 shall have a new subsection 2.3.5 added stating: 'It is the implied right of the cartographer to fairly issue additional land to players according to changing RP conditions.'

Article 3 - The Exodite System
3.1) This Article shall be added as Article 4 to the Cartography Act 2015 (Yukon); in that Act this Section shall read: 'This Article has been added by the Advanced Cartography Act 2015 (Yukon) #Ref 3.1.'
3.2) The Exodite System is the home system of the Yukon Canon and shall consist of the following features, listed in order of their distance from the star:

  • 1) Exodus - The Solar Star.
  • 2) Rockall - A small Lava World with no moons.
  • 3) Medusa - A small Rock World with no moons.
  • 4) Yukon - A large Terrestrial World with two moons.
  • 5) Juno - A small Rock World with no moons.
  • 6) The Inner Belt - A small, resource rich asteroid belt.
  • 7) Chandriss - A large Jovian World with a ring and 89 moons.
  • 8) Balthasar - A large Jovian World with 122 moons.
  • 9) The Aegis of Idos - A large asteroid belt with sparse resources which completely shrouds the planet Idoes.
  • 10) Idos - A large Ice World with no known moons.
  • 11) Golgotha - A large Rock World remarkable for its immense liquid mercury content. It has 14 moons.
  • 12) Serendipity - A medium Water World of mysterious nature. It has 4 moons, one of which is terrestrial.
  • 13) Poss - A medium Chemical World with 1 moon.
  • 14) Nowhere - A small godforsaken rock, remarkable for the abundance of wrecked spacecraft that end up there. It has no moons.
  • 15) The Outer Belt - A huge, dense and resource rich asteroid belt.

3.3) Additional details and specific details regarding each feature of the System shall be established by the Minister for Cartography, subject to the authority of the RPMT. Player may petition the Minister for Cartography with their own ideas in this regard.
3.4) Territorial claims in any of the features of the system are a matter for the Minister for Cartography and the Cartographer's discretion. They may apply such rules as they deem necessary to such claims, subject to the authority of the RPMT.
3.5) All features of the Exodite System are considered uninhabited by sentient life, until such time as they become inhabited by players.
Edited by Arcadia, May 26 2015, 11:01 AM.
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Welsh Cowboy

Please note that this is far from a criticism, but why do you feel legislating this is necessary?
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New Wolfeinstein
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I certainly support this act, after all I need some set of rules to follow when I abandon Yukon xD
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Ajerrin

#Ref 2.3 shall have a new subsection 2.3.5 added stating: 'It is the implied right of the cartographer to fairly issue additional land to players according to changing OOC government policy.'

In this context "fairly" is subjective.
What is "changing OOC government policy

I would disagree with this whole piece and suggest that land is not issued, rather confirmed and identified by the map AFTER RP is written. Land should never be placed on the map by the Cartographer without actual changes in RP by a member state. Member states should place their land requests to be recognized because of the RP that has transpired, not the other way around.

In other words, member states have a sovereign right to declare their borders their own. The Cartographer has no right to alter them without subject to the approval of the member state and/or the RPMT.
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Herargon
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Good idea, Ajerrin. Didn't think about that.

But what bothers me most, is that the idea of"1 pixel= X amount miles/kilometres" isn't included. I do already know that it is the case, and do not want to be an annoying beggar, but it would be good if that was included in the original act with this new amendment. It would make it clear for new players how big their nation actually is.
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Arcadia
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#Welsh Cowboy - This is a matter that requires legislation owing to the nature of the system we have here.

#Ajerrin - I understand your point however the present system we have have in place works on the basis of simultaneous action; that is to say that the person RPs the expansion and posts the claim at the same time. The RP is then deemed to be sufficient or insufficient to allow expansion and the territory is allocated. The OOC policy part relates to policies regarding boosting activity, RP and filling up map space as necessary; if you would like I can add a piece specifically stating what this means and how it should be applied. The trouble with allowing players to declare their own borders is that it places no measures down to prevent them from claiming ridiculous amounts of land for themselves, the decision needs to be moderated somehow and that is where the Cartographer comes in; this is just an extension of the current system we have in place.

#Herargon - I included 2.1.3 (#Ref 3.1.3 shall be amended to include: 'All associated calculations of area and distance shall be considered in line with this Act, insofar as they are mathematically correct.') for that very purpose.
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Ajerrin

What I'm saying is that a person MUST RP the expansion to be awarded the claim. They can make claims all they want on the Forum. You get nothing until it is RPd, deemed to be sufficient (the territory is allocated) or not (fix it, improve, do more, etc).

I'd also like to place an inquiry as to why "free expansive land" was given out to everyone on the map without any official vote, discussion with Senators or an inquiry into if each nation would like that. Did anyone RP that expansion? If not, why did the map change? I'm all fine with making new rules. I'm fine with maps because I love them. But I think we need to remember that the whole purpose of this is to role play, not just see my land expand on a map because I like it and I've been here a while. We don't need to give away land on the map - it cheapens the system, the nation and our region. You earn things here - and the commodity we go by is RP.

To use your own commentary, The RP is then deemed to be sufficient or insufficient to allow expansion and the territory is allocated.

Where is New Lahui's RP regarding expansion when the map expansion occurred? Where is everyone's? I don't think "filling up map space" should be done just because. People should earn that through good RP.

The trouble with allowing players to declare their own borders is that it places no measures down to prevent them from claiming ridiculous amounts of land for themselves

I'm ok with allowing players to declare their own borders in RP. Its my sovereign right to do so. There is a measure to prevent the member states from controlling all the land in Yucon for themselves. It's called RP. And the RPMT. You can claim all your want in RP. If the RPMT says this is wrong then it has to be fixed. And its fine to claim things through RP.

Controlling and maintaining the land you claimed is another thing. The rest of the world and its member states, for one, will certainly RP about it. And that's what I want to see. RP. See, we've got rules for this already.



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Welsh Cowboy

I would like to echo Ajerrin's comments, in that I believe the cornerstone of any RP-based region is just that: RPing, not shading more of some map somewhere red or black or blue. I would hope that this region would make RPing the central focus of any policy such as maps or regional geography, and I worry this act as currently constituted loses sight of RP's importance.

To build off my previous question about the need for legislation of this sort at all, I would submit that legislating the minutiae of a map, a tool of the RP, turns the exercise of building the map into something that will be argued legalistically, which inherently detracts from the simple enjoyment of good RPing, rather than debating who should get a few more pixels on a map, which as I stated earlier should be a secondary, if not lower, concern in the region. Instead of getting into arguments about whether nation X is large enough to receive Y number of pixels in a new claim, or worse, just handing out places on the map (more on this concern later), I call for a simple system that doesn't need numerous laws or regulations, a system that says clearly and concisely: RP it. If you want to colonize an island, RP your nation's expansionist tendencies. If you want to send a space shuttle to some other galaxy, RP it. Clearly there must be restrictions, but even in my short time here, I have seen numerous safeguards and checks on unrestrained, baseless RPing. There's a lot of very good leadership and citizens here who won't let people claim the whole planet with a one-sentence RP. Beyond that, why legislate? Why dictate, when by letting the push and pull of RPing shape the story of the region, we can both avoid falling into the trap of doing it for more space on the map and arguing over arbitrary decisions of land grants?

Ajerrin has also made the point, a very valid one, that the recent free gifting of land without discussion or RPing is a bad move, one that, as he very ably puts it, "cheapens the system, the nation, and our region." I agree, as I feel that this is an example of exactly what I'd hope to avoid and have outlined above.

I would simply ask that regional policy be centered around promoting and incentivizing RP, not expansion on the map.
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Arcadia
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You seem to misunderstand the recent land expansions and the reasons for them, as well as the current law on land claims and expansion.

The policy of free land expansion was initiated because vast expanses of the map were left unclaimed; I later did calculations of population density and found that in many cases it was unrealistically high - the land expansion claims were a remedy for this. Additionally I reflected on my attitude towards initial claims and realised I had been overly conservative to begin with. I understand your concern about a lack of RP for the expansion, but we have to balance gameplay with RP here; a series of issues were noted and a decision was made to remedy it.

Now at present the power to confirm or reject land claims, and issue land rests with the Cartographer; this is law. The RPMT can contest decisions made by the Cartographer, but they have no direct power to grant land or refuse it. The judgement on whether and RP is sufficient to allow expansion rests with the Cartographer. This Act actually amends this to grant the RPMT broader authority over the matter by specifically giving them the power to review decisions and actions by the Cartographer.

As for the claim that the system is not simple this I feel is disingenuous; the system is simple it is simply the case that unfortunately the law needs to sound complex in order to ensure that it functions. At present the system IS centered around RP, except where considerations relating to realism, fair play and gameplay aspects override this. Without trying to sound unkind or overly autocratic the map, by law, is the remit of the Cartographer and it is for them to decide on map claims and expansions based on their good judgement. I am the Cartographer and I have made a number of tough judgments regarding the map.

I agree that were I to simply give away land without good reason it would cheapen the RP; however I have not done this, I issued land expansions to correct a number of issues which arose. To expand on those issue:

  • I had been overly conservative with regards to how much land a nation could initially claim; adjusting policy to permit nations a larger initial claim to rectify this could only be addressed fairly by allowing players a 'free' expansion. This was the reason for the first land giveaway.
  • Huge areas of the map remained unclaimed and unused; this actually hampered good RP because it made/makes the distance factor a huge issue. With such vast spaces between nations RPing on a global level as well as a localised one was difficult. This is part of the reason for the second land giveaway.
  • I calculated the approximate population density of the two largest nations; 46566 and myself; and several medium sized nations; Nedea, Saratoga and Airatania and found that they were actually in a position for the most part where their population density was so massive as to be unsustainable and unfeasible. Now a minor issue of density can be cause for some solid RP as I demonstrated on Enkon, but here we had such huge densities that having such small amounts of land made no sense when so much was unclaimed; not only this but there could be no IC solution sufficient that would not first require the death of huge chunks of people's populations.

In the long run massive land giveaways are unsustainable, which is why I set this in a three phase way; instead of giving everyone a massive land expansion all in one go I spread it out between three phases of which we are on the second. This not only allows nations to generate RP accordingly to accommodate this but it also results in a more natural spreading of national borders. Once the three issues I outlined above are fully addressed land expansions will return to a purely RP centered system.

HOWEVER this is not the subject of this debate; we should be debating instead the amendments proposed. What, within the Act specifically do you oppose? The amendments listed do not change the system of claiming and expansion away from an RP based one; people will still have to RP their expansions as before, this Act just makes it clearer whose responsibility it is to ensure that this is done properly.
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Ajerrin

All three of your reasons for "land giveaways" could have been solved by people roleplaying their issues and problems. As the Cartographer and the one who did all the calculating it was your responsibility to inform the region of this issue and discuss how to handle it rather than unilaterally making drastic changes to the sovereign nations of this region. I didn't get a TG about the issue and as a Senator at the time I would certainly have expected one, regardless if your position grants you the power to make these decisions. Communication is just as important as RP.

If the Cartographer currently has the power to confirm or reject land claims, the region needs to put rules in how member states can make land claims. For example, a member state must RP that claim in order for the Cartographer to confirm or reject said claim.

The judgement on whether and RP is sufficient to allow expansion rests with the Cartographer.
Now this I have a problem with. I don't believe this to be true nor to the spirit of laws I signed. But lets assume you're right so far. You currently have the power to confirm or reject land claims, did anyone make those claims to you for the expansions? If not, how did you allow expansion when people didn't request it?

I'm not trying to make this difficult. You put a lot of time into this and are dedicated to making this region great, but I've got some issues on one OOC person unilaterally making decisions on the IC sovereign rights of other nations, especially if that nation didn't RP the issue.
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Ajerrin

Love the idea - really, I love the idea. I this this is awesome - except for:

2.5) #Ref 2.3 shall have a new subsection 2.3.5 added stating: 'It is the implied right of the cartographer to fairly issue additional land to players according to changing OOC government policy.'

I will be writing something up revolving around this piece soon.
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Arcadia
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If this is the only barrier at this stage I can reword this subsection and we can handle the issue in a separate Act later if necessary.
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Ajerrin

I think Herargon's request is fair. How big is this planet of yours, Arcadia? I know there were some miscalculated things in the past and that's ok but those numbers should be public now, right?
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Arcadia
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I simply don't see the point in specifically legislating it when the guidebook to the RP rules (which I am currently compiling) would provide such information for a person. It is law by implication and that should be enough.
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46566
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Well it's usally for defensive purposes. Bringing up the usage of hexs like on the old NCON maps we knew each hex equals lets say 10,000 KM squared. People could calculate how much population they have in each hex and what military they have per hex. Right now we have no way of calculating how much we have were. I knew i had a population density of 250 million per hex.
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Ajerrin

Arcadia
May 14 2015, 04:22 PM
I simply don't see the point in specifically legislating it when the guidebook to the RP rules (which I am currently compiling) would provide such information for a person. It is law by implication and that should be enough.
I honestly don't see the need to legislate the majority of this stuff but you want to and I'm not willing to fight over that. Being that said, if you're wanting to legislate it this I consider it important to add because you calculated facts and figures that resulted in the changing of national boarders without the consent of said nations on more than one occasion.

You're compiling a guidebook to the RP rules? What's going to be in that?
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Unibearia

Yo guys, do this privately. AJ, I understand what you mean and your concerns but now you are just aching for more to rant about. So please, go Tg this with Prime. I want to see questions, not bitching.
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Welsh Cowboy

Unibearia
May 14 2015, 11:53 PM
Yo guys, do this privately. AJ, I understand what you mean and your concerns but now you are just aching for more to rant about. So please, go Tg this with Prime. I want to see questions, not bitching.
While I respect your opinion, I feel the two have done a good job of maintaining focus on issues, even if (and I have participated in this too) they are larger principles rather than specific clauses of this act. I don't see it as veering into whining, I think it has been productive and useful to see two differing opinions and philosophies and two able advocates.

Maybe I'm in the Minority here, but I think this debate really has been worthwhile.
Edited by Welsh Cowboy, May 15 2015, 12:06 AM.
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Ajerrin

My apologies dear Senator. As a citizen of this Assembly I bring questions to the table. I am only bringing them to light where I can, here in the Assembly Forum. You did notice my question in the last post, yes? I'm not aching to rant. I've done that before. You've certainly seen the brunt of that in the past, dear Senator. My posts do not mirror previous rants. This is a healthy conversation. What are your thoughts on this matter?
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Unibearia

Lol, call me Uni.


I'm more neutral towards it since it is just adding more details on the Cartography and our regional solar system. Maybe soon we will have a regional galaxy! :D
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Saratoga
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Unibearia
May 14 2015, 11:53 PM
Yo guys, do this privately. AJ, I understand what you mean and your concerns but now you are just aching for more to rant about. So please, go Tg this with Prime. I want to see questions, not bitching.
I am happy that you are watching out for the flow and language of the debate but I'm going to disagree with you on this. Even though it can be seen as ranting I would rather see AJ ranting about how much he disagrees with a bill than not being part of the discussion at all. Now if AJ was complain about something completely unrelated to the debate then I would say crack the whip. Thank you for all you do!
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Arcadia
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POINT OF ORDER: Let's bring discussions back to the topic in hand please; I understand people have their concerns over conduct and the direction of debate however I ask that you leave it to me as EC to maintain correct order in the Assembly. At this time I am satisfied with conditions in the Assembly and with Ajerrin's conduct. Thank you.


Ajerrin
 
You're compiling a guidebook to the RP rules? What's going to be in that?

I'll address this specifically as it answers your question and point relating to calculated facts.

The guidebook will feature a concise breakdown of the RP rules at this time; this will include not only legislation, but also RPMT decisions and implied statute (such as the calculated facts). Since the calculations are based upon statute I feel it better to place them in an easy to edit guidebook which doesn't require a Legislative Order. You see if the statute changes regarding the size of Yukon (unlikely but under the constitution entirely possible) it would change all of the calculations, meaning a significant portion of the law needs to be changed just to facilitate the changing calculations - whereas if we keep them in a guidebook they can be easily amended without the need for full legislative process.

This is the reason I try to cut the statute and legislative language to a minimum here; to prevent over complication of matters and an over reliance upon legislative action.
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Arcadia
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I motion that this Act be given additional debating time. Can I get a second?
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Welsh Cowboy

Arcadia
May 17 2015, 04:24 PM
I motion that this Act be given additional debating time. Can I get a second?
I'll second that motion.
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Herargon
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Welsh Cowboy
May 17 2015, 05:02 PM
Arcadia
May 17 2015, 04:24 PM
I motion that this Act be given additional debating time. Can I get a second?
I'll second that motion.
I third that motion.
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Arcadia
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This Act has an additional 5 days worth of debate.
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Arcadia
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So will the amendment of:

2.5) #Ref 2.3 shall have a new subsection 2.3.5 added stating: 'It is the implied right of the cartographer to fairly issue additional land to players according to changing OOC government policy.'

To:

2.5) #Ref 2.3 shall have a new subsection 2.3.5 added stating: 'It is the implied right of the cartographer to fairly issue additional land to players according to changing RP conditions.'

Remove the principle objection of the Assemblyman?
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46566
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Should we state something about colonies? While no one uses colonies now but may form them in the future.=. Maybe have it state here that colonies cannot claim additional land then a nation would normally do. I.E. a nation who formed 5 colonies cannot claim no more then a nation without a colony.
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Arcadia
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That would be an issue for a different piece of legislation I think.
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Arcadia
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This has had more than sufficient debating time; I have amended 2.5 according to the comments of the Assemblyman, Ajerrin and am now calling for a vote.

Please declare your vote Aye, Nay or Abstain. You have two days.
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New Wolfeinstein
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Aye
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46566
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Abstain
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Arcadia
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The Act passes 1-0-1 and shall be passed to the Senate.
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