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Constitutional Amendment
Topic Started: May 15 2015, 01:54 AM (208 Views)
46566
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Constitutional Amendment
1) the Assembly must have at least a 50% voter turnout to pass a bill or to appoint a RP moderator. Any less then the Bill reopens to debate or is considered dead depending on the originator of the bill. Any appoint will have the nomination reopen for 48 hours before the next vote.


The reason being is that the appointment me of Anjerin only passed with 2 votes. While he could have won in the election it was to small of a voting size to really matter.
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Ajerrin

I'm afraid I have to disagree with this amendment, despite it being in good taste. Having 50% of a mandated quorum requires 35 nations to vote on everything and everything that comes up for discussion. That quorum would also change based on the population of the region - we had 81 last Feb - and that would make our quorum 38, almost 10% more than the quorum you would require us vote with today. I would press that you couldn't bring 35 nations to vote on this amendment right now.

I've been around for almost three years. I haven't seen more than 15 nations vote on anything - 70 member nations or 170 member nations.

If you wish to vote for or against something I would recommend member states to act as majority or minority whips and break out the Rolodex to make phone calls, use stamps, or shout it out on the RMB. Maybe we could have all votes be made on the vote section of the front page. Could that be possible?
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Airatania
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Ajerrin
May 15 2015, 04:40 AM
I'm afraid I have to disagree with this amendment, despite it being in good taste. Having 50% of a mandated quorum requires 35 nations to vote on everything and everything that comes up for discussion. That quorum would also change based on the population of the region - we had 81 last Feb - and that would make our quorum 38, almost 10% more than the quorum you would require us vote with today. I would press that you couldn't bring 35 nations to vote on this amendment right now.

I've been around for almost three years. I haven't seen more than 15 nations vote on anything - 70 member nations or 170 member nations.

If you wish to vote for or against something I would recommend member states to act as majority or minority whips and break out the Rolodex to make phone calls, use stamps, or shout it out on the RMB. Maybe we could have all votes be made on the vote section of the front page. Could that be possible?
You know, I've been thinking about this issue. There is another game that I play, Star Trek Online, it's an MMO. And in it there are guilds (called "fleets") and I am the leader of one such fleet. At one point, we have over 100 active members, and most of us did RP in some form or another. We also have an out-of-game website (5thsod.shivtr.com if you want to check it out). I have found that even with so much in-game activity, it is next to impossible to get people to participate on the forums. We would have maybe 10 active members on the website at any one time.

I fear we have this problem here, too. We're constantly forced to try and corral everyone to come vote on things, and no one ever does. Take the RPMT appointments. The Senate had more votes (3 of 3 members) than the Assembly did (1 vote [with 1 abstention] out of 67 eligible nations). That's rough.

I'd like for us to explore the idea of voting on measures by using the poll feature on NS. Post a link to the legislation/discussion here on the forum, then, when the voting is opened, start a poll on NS to obtain votes. Prime may have some reasoning against that idea, but to me, on the face it seems like our best option to try and increase activity in the legislative side of things.
Edited by Airatania, May 15 2015, 06:26 AM.
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46566
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Maybe have a regional census every 4 to 5 months. If you don't say your here then you lose citizenship. Any nation who loses citizenship can reapply for it. Any vote on the bills will only effect people with citizenship.We have what 10 to 15 active people? All you would need is about 7 votes.
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Ajerrin

That might have potential - but then are we creating two classes of nations? What happens if I vote I'm here and then never do anything? Are we now looking into defining rules for citizens? Doesn't that go against something we've already written into the constitution? (I don't know I'm at work and don't have time to research this)

I like this idea much more than the one you proposed and I think I need to hear more about this.
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46566
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Well it's up to the person if they want to force them to vote we are not Australia were voting is compulsory. If a nations just wants to keep citizenship and not care on what happens in the region it's up to them. Usually in other regions they have a Census either before every election or every other election. The purpose of the census is to clear out inactive citizens from voting during the elections. The point is that it is meant to stop inactive people from just coming to the region and just running for a position and leaving tell the next election.

They basically would be reclassified as we were when we first created our forum names. They would just have to reapply after the election or whatnot.(if we base it around elections) A census would run for lets say a week before a election and any nation who doesn't post on it loses citizenship.(regardless if they are active on the RMB or NS forum) It's meant to at least keep people to occasionally on the regional forums.
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Arcadia
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A simple quorum rule might be more appropriate.

For example: 'In the case of each vote to be placed before the Assembly it shall be for the EC to determine such a quorum as they deem appropriate in order for an Act to be successfully passed.'

In this manner we can prevent a one man vote winning the day, while avoiding undue process or complication to proceedings. It may also encourage increased activity.
Edited by Arcadia, May 15 2015, 04:28 PM.
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Tyvenia

There were six nations, not including Arcadia, who discussed or voted on nominees. That those same nations didn't actually vote doesn't invalidate the election itself.

So, 46566, why didn't you vote? You seconded the nomination of Nedea, but then you failed to vote. It's ironic that you're now suddenly concerned with the outcome...
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46566
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I wasn't on when the vote happened. It's more the fact that we only had 1 vote really voting for anybody. It's the matter that we had 2 votes for the whole thing. As you said there was 6 nations actually talking about something.How could something happen or pass when it gets less then 25% of the vote? We had something pass with only 2 votes which is way to low to actually pass anything. What would happen if i passed something that nobody noticed with the agreement of two senators? It's the matter of something was given the okay with such a low voter turn out is the problem. I don't like the insinuation that i'm just mentioning this because the person i seconded didn't win.
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Arcadia
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I gave the vote the full two day period and notified people on numerous occasions, in fact going so far as to mass tag spam to try and get people to vote on the subject. I don't think the system should be held ransom to people's ignorance of the importance of a vote; if an Act or SO comes before the Assembly that they don't like, they are notified it is there and yet they fail to vote on it then in my opinion they forfeit the right to complain about the outcome.

As a point of interest I now have copied in a Notepad document on my desktop a mass tag spam which includes all active nations which I will be using on the message board in order to notify people that votes are taking place. This method should make it so that all the players tagged receive a notification the next time they log in or refresh. You cannot claim that the lack of votes recently is down to a lack of me trying, I can't afford telegram stamps so tag spamming the RMB is the best I can do.
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46566
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It's not your fault. Its more the fact that we don't have a system in place to determine a low turn out for a vote. We are lucky in the fact that as a whole we are the same region that came from NCON and know each other. If we start to grow having a system with 2 votes pass something could leave us open to people complaining in the future. It's more of having a safety net in place to protect the region.
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Arcadia
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In which case the best way to do things would be to give the EC the power to declare a required quorum for each vote. This way it is predetermined how many people must vote minimum in order for an Act to pass.
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46566
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That's pretty much who runs a census. every 6 months or so people would be required to post saying there active. If they post in a thread then they keep the citizenship mask and should they fail to post then they lose the masking.(they have to reapply for citizenship) The EC would state based on the number of citizens and ministers how much is needed to pass a bill or approve a member of the RPMT. When the voting period begins then they state the number that is needed to pass.

The reason i'm pushing for a census act is to make sure each citizen is active.
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Arcadia
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I don't think its fair to compel people to sign a census in order to retain citizenship; activity in government should not be a requirement of citizenship here. Our region is about RP and that should be the principle focus of our citizens, the muckier and more unpleasant they find politics the better. Why? Because it prevents us from over-legislating.

I would agree to a simple quorum system, but not to a full blown census.
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46566
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A census is more for any activity on the forum more so then activity in government. It would basically take out nations who are no longer around.
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Welsh Cowboy

First, let me say I see no need for a minimum number of voters; if only three people care enough about a vote, then we shouldn't stop something from becoming law just because most citizens don't bother to vote. If something somehow passed with one vote in favor and the region opposed it, it would be simple to repeal it quickly. Therefore, I don't see an issue here. That being said...

I am okay with a quorum system, although I would love to see a concrete proposal. I don't like the census idea. As Arcadia said, there should be no requirement of activity in government for citizenship.

Plus, if nations are inactive, they won't be voting, so to me, it doesn't matter to the issue at hand.
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Ajerrin

If the whole purpose would be to RP, wouldn't that suggest there should be a requirement of activity to be a citizen?

I'm not a fan of giving one person the power to create a quorum based on their desires of importance. A quorum would have to be a set number before anything is even proposed.

That being said... I agree with Welsh that a minimum number of voters doesn't have to exist in UCON. The government has provisions in place to repeal anything they don't like. Let them use that law, rather than create new a one.
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Onza
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Yeah, I'm hesitant to agree to the EC setting a quorum, as then an entire door of conflict of interest is opened up.

I don't think we should punish a nation by not allowing them to win an election just because citizens were too lazy to vote. Prime pushed for the elections multiple times, and even tagged every nation that hadn't voted in an RMB post. If anything, it is them that should be held accountable - not the candidate that won because only two people voted.

I suppose I see where this is intended to be an amendment to encourage activity, but in the long run, it will just increase bureaucracy even farther by forcing us to not vote in people simply because not enough people participated, and also have to maintain a consistent count of all citizens in the region (a daunting task, thank you).
Edited by Onza, May 16 2015, 02:19 PM.
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Arcadia
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I'm moving this to the relevant ministry so that it can receive the attention and discussion necessary, without being subject to Assembly procedure.
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46566
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Maybe have a speaker of the assembly be voted on? The speaker would determine the Quorum needed to pass? It would be the job of the speaker to get people voting on issues here.
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Ajerrin

We discussed that a person having the privilege to decide on quorum is a bad idea.
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