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| Denmark secedes from NATO | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 6 2008, 02:06 PM (1,018 Views) | |
| West Germany | May 7 2008, 05:48 AM Post #16 |
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Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
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OOC: It was not ASB. It is historically true. And it makes it much more interesting indeed. And for me much more difficulty. Adler |
| [IMG]http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1404/3dflagsdeu00010001aux4.gif[/IMG][URL=http://z15.invisionfree.com/World1945/index.php?showtopic=87&st=0#entry236221]West German Embassy[/URL][IMG]http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1404/3dflagsdeu00010001aux4.gif[/IMG] | |
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| France | May 7 2008, 06:49 AM Post #17 |
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Liberté, égalité, fraternité
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It is ASB AFTER Denmark joins NATO. It also basically cripples NATO. It is Similar to Czechoslovakia leaving the Warsaw pact. |
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Tremblez, tyrans et vous perfides L'opprobre de tous les partis Tremblez ! vos projets parricides Vont enfin recevoir leurs prix ! Tout est soldat pour vous combattre S'ils tombent, nos jeunes héros, La terre en produit de nouveaux, Contre vous tout prêts à se battre ! | |
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| USSR | May 7 2008, 07:01 AM Post #18 |
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Proletarii vsekh stran, soyedinyaytes!
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France left NATO in 1966. So why cant Denmark leave NATO in 1949? Where is the your problem with that? Every country is allowed to leave the NATO treaty. Even the USA could leave it. See it as a chance for work on keeping your rows closed. Norway, will maybe leave NATO too. What will happen then? Will you leave too? This is the salt in the soup of this game. You always mentioned there should be crisis. Now there is one, and Simon leaves instead of creating some nice embargos, some international pressure Big conferences, Big words, Big blockade of Denmark, some military sabre rattling. All that would surely make fun for more than a week. But instead of having fun with Denmark, he ran away. Nothing against you Bob, but this could all have happened. And this would be really great in my mind. Exciting weeks. Maybe the other NATO partners could make all this instead /ooc |
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| Denmark | May 7 2008, 09:10 AM Post #19 |
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Der er et yndigt land
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OOC: I don't see the problem, and i certinaly dont hope that this is underminded with the ASB hammer, because that would be ASB /ooc |
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55 Danes kidnapped by Chinese communists and held hostage. You are not forgotten. | |
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| Sweden | May 7 2008, 10:14 AM Post #20 |
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OOC: I agree with Andi. This is another opportunity for really engaging political roleplay, and IMHO not the least ASB. I'm not even sure that Norway is a NATO member at this moment. It seems that no Norwegian player has applied for NATO membership. If anyone can find a Norwegian NATO application I would be most eager to know. /OOC A Scandinavian defence union as it is being negotiated right now would be dedicated to securing the continued freedom and independence of the Nordic nations so there will not be any pacts between such an entity and any non-affiliated nations. A Scandinavian defence union won’t be an alliance with an authoritarian and unequal structure slanted towards the largest nations but rather a defence union between sovereign and equal Western democracies believing in the right of self-determination and free trade. Therefore we will leave it up to the individual member nations to formulate their own policies regarding arms purchases. Most likely this will mean that each nation seek to acquire the military equipment best suited to their requirements without compromising their political integrity. |
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| USSR | May 7 2008, 11:06 AM Post #21 |
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Proletarii vsekh stran, soyedinyaytes!
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OOC: Norway is the NATO member list. Click me to get to NATO member list So think Norway is a NATO member, without application. /OOC |
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| West Germany | May 7 2008, 11:39 AM Post #22 |
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Einigkeit und Recht und Freiheit
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OOC: I agree with Andi and Wolfhart. This is not ASB. Adler |
| [IMG]http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1404/3dflagsdeu00010001aux4.gif[/IMG][URL=http://z15.invisionfree.com/World1945/index.php?showtopic=87&st=0#entry236221]West German Embassy[/URL][IMG]http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1404/3dflagsdeu00010001aux4.gif[/IMG] | |
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| Sweden | May 7 2008, 12:49 PM Post #23 |
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OOC: Forcibly recruited /OOC
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| Ethiopia | May 7 2008, 12:54 PM Post #24 |
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Alright, I have read both sides, and read up on some information. In principle, I think it is doable. The idea of pan-Scandanavianism is real. Such a defense organization is plausible. Denmark getting out of NATO is possible, and gameable. But the timing is not. The progression is not. The abruptness is not. Pan Scandanavianism is just taking hold. And it's ASB to just up and quite an organization like NATO on a whim. With no warning. This would NOT happen as such. Unless it's for nefarious reasons that is. Bob should have talked about this with the NATO nations, and made his intentions clear prior to leaving it. That way there could be mutual reassurance between NATO and the new Defense Organization. It would have calmed the situation. I think this is something that is plausible in the late fifties, early sixties, but not in 1949 after Denmark just joined, and had numerous partnerships with other NATO nations. Denmark is already in economic hardship right now from policies, there is no government would hedge their bets like that and drive their nation into further economic hardship. This would put pressure on the leadership that made the decision to willingly kill their economy further. So in principle, not ASB. In application, ASB. Game ending? Certainly not. Workable solution possible? Totally. |
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| France | May 7 2008, 01:27 PM Post #25 |
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Liberté, égalité, fraternité
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Summed up perfectly. Doable but the course taken to the end was not. |
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Tremblez, tyrans et vous perfides L'opprobre de tous les partis Tremblez ! vos projets parricides Vont enfin recevoir leurs prix ! Tout est soldat pour vous combattre S'ils tombent, nos jeunes héros, La terre en produit de nouveaux, Contre vous tout prêts à se battre ! | |
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| Sweden | May 7 2008, 01:30 PM Post #26 |
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The timing could undoubtedly be better but could also be a lot worse. NATO is not an old organization with a structure cut in stone: it is still in its infancy and Denmark has neither NATO units stationed on Danish soil nor do it have any Danish NATO units within other nations. There's no partnerships that are specifically linked to NATO: rather some bilateral trade agreements and then the Nordic council. So leaving NATO for a Scandinavian defence union is certainly not that slow a process as suggested and I would rather claim that it is now it can be done with some ease and with less detrimental effect to NATO too, not in the late fifties or early sixties when Denmark has been fully integrated. I would say that it's only then NATO turns into a cockroach hotel. Right now in-game as in RL we're in a politically very dynamic age where this is more probable. Scandinavism is not a new thing of this age; it grew strong already in the early 19th century and has since then been an important part of Nordic politics in all nations. It is certainly stronger in Denmark than any sympathies for the Allies at this time in history. I agree that some previous discussion between Denmark and NATO about the termination of the Danish membership would have been preferable, but in all honesty there were no room and no allowance for any such discussion by the ones Denmark would have had to discuss it with. So I understand and respect the Danish opinion that this was the only way to do it. |
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| USSR | May 7 2008, 01:35 PM Post #27 |
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Proletarii vsekh stran, soyedinyaytes!
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I agree to Sweden. But I also think every country has the right to do what that country wants to do. So there is no need for blaming Bob, because he did what he thought would be best for Denmark. Why are we still talking about, if this is ASB or not. I think we should pay more attention to the fact, that we have the chance to change something in the game. And thats what we should do. Simon has left. You can not reverse his decission. So please stop discussing about if it was ASB or not (in my opinion it was not ASB) and pay your full attention to the chances we have. |
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| New Zealand | May 7 2008, 03:05 PM Post #28 |
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I personally think it was historical, but I also think the responses were historical. The times were permeated with fear, they were building nuclear bomb shelters in their backyards for crying out loud.. So I think any move towards Russia would be taken as treachery.. |
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| USSR | May 7 2008, 03:10 PM Post #29 |
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Proletarii vsekh stran, soyedinyaytes!
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Please read exactly. In fact it was not a step towards the USSR. All the USSR did was offering a non agression pact. It was the Danish decission to leave NATO and rejoin in the Nordic Defence Alliance. We did nothing expect offering help for the case of a british embargo. I also did not had any idea that Denmark will leave NATO, but I used it like Stalin would have used this situation. And if you say that ever state that is not involved in NATO is praying towards Moscow, thats completly wrong. As I already said Simon acted in such an inappropriated way. This situation could have been used for a lot of fun. |
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| Sweden | May 7 2008, 03:11 PM Post #30 |
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OOC: A defence union with Norway, Sweden and Finland would certainly not move politically towards the Soviet Union. That's just a retaliatory propaganda stunt by the Western Allies to sooth their hurt feelings of being rejected
/OOC
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/OOC


/OOC
8:54 AM Jul 11