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A Call For Assistance
Topic Started: Aug 30 2008, 06:06 PM (1,048 Views)
Ethiopia
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I've done this before, but I still would like someone to try and find me information regarding the cost of maintenance and operation for military units.

Issues have come up primarily with the British military. I feel pretty strongly that it's way underfunded (by like...50%). But I don't want to start cutting people down into debt if I don't have strong positive information.

The issue is not too prevelant with my rubric in regards to nations with smaller militaries, however, it is big with the UK.

The main reason being that whatever assumptions I have made into the cost of maintenance in each unit gets extrapolated larger and larger as the Army's get bigger and bigger. So the larger the military, the more in accurate assumptions become.

I sincerely do not have time to look up this information. So those of you who are military gurus, please try and find me this information.

I need to know what operational and maintenance costs inflated into 1990 dollars for as many mechanized units as possible. Probably most importantly in tanks, APC's, Artillery units, airplanes, and all naval assets.

I also think that we should start assigning maintenance costs to new products that come on the market, when they enter the market.

Just so everybody knows. Everyone is being held to the same type of analytical standard when I go through your militaries. Everyone has the same maintenance costs for each asset. So nobody is getting special favors here.

Thanks,
Merk
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Great Britain
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Do you mean specifically "Equipment and Facility Maintenance: 2500 million" needs to be doubled?
I do have access to figures on what it cost to run an armoured division in the 1980s, ship maintenance from 1980 onwards and aircraft maintenance from 1975 onwards.

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Ethiopia
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Here are some numbers I've been using. There are slight modifiers that go into this. If you use antiquated equipment, like old destroyers, it gets modified lower. If you have a super carrier, then it's like 1.5 carriers. If you have a super battleship, it's like 1.5.

These are costs to put food on deck, gas, supplies, maintenance costs of all these assets.

Cost
Aircraft Carrier 50000000
Battle Ships 37500000
Battle Cruiser 25000000
Light Cruiser 17500000
Light Flight Deck Cruiser 1000000
Destroyer 20000000
Corvettes 10000000
Destroyer Escorts 7500000
Frigates 5000000
Submarines 5000000
MTB's 50,000
Patrol craft 20,000
Minelayer 0

(Ugh, these all have lots of modifiers on them depending on make and model)

APC's 50
Tanks 100
Jeeps 5
Artillery 10
Lorry's 10
Arms


Sunburst 50,000
Meteor 75,000
Sabre 100,000
Falcon 50,000
Venom 50,000
Wizard 50,000

Brittania 60,000
Viceroy 100,000
Brabazon 60,000
Comet 75,000
Shacleton 50,000

Archangel 100,000
Washington 100,000
Lincoln 100,000
Canberra 250,000


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USSR
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Nothing against your work on getting these information, but the main factor is how often a carrier is on sea, or how many flight hours one aircraft flew. You cant say it general.
Soviet Union
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Ethiopia
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It takes into account normal standard operation in an effectively maintained manner. Which is why for Turkey I said Adler was parking his assets so as to not run up debt.
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South Korea
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For the Navy it is usually said that a ships maintenance is roughly 10% of the price annually, higher for nuclear powered vessels
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Ethiopia
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Is that maintenance, or maintenance AND operational costs?
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South Korea
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Maintenance and peacetime operations
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Ethiopia
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Cool. Is there any chance you can get me a link for that? I've only been able to find such information on modern stuff. Nothing from this era.
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South Korea
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Sorry no link
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USSR
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Why don't we make some general assumptions.

Navy:
10 % of the purchasing price are the annual costs for peacetime operation including the salary for the sailors, repairs, fuel and ammunition.

One Skoryy destroyer would cost $2,500,000 per year. Thats a fair amount I think.

Air Force:
7.5 % of the purchasing price, included the salary

MiG-15: $108,750

Army:
For each vehicle 2.5 % of the purchasing price, but this does not include the salary you have to pay.

T-54: $21,875

This model has the advantage, that you can check it easily and it increases the maintenance costs every new model, because of the higher purchasing price.

I would vote for it :P

Edit:

I did some research in older books of my father. You can estimate about 15 % annual operational expenses per aircraft based on the purchasing price.

For tanks, artillery, AA stuff, APC's 8 % of the purchasing price for operational expenses. For vehicles like jeeps, trucks and so on, a minimum of 35 % annually.

Also did some for ships:
One Ticonderoga Cruiser costed about $1,000,000,000. In 1996 annual operation expenses were estimated at $28,000,000 ~ 2.8 % annual
Arleigh Burke: Building costs: 920 Million; operation expenses $20,000,000 ~2.5 % annual
Nimitz Class: Building 6 Billion; Operation $444 Million ~8 % annual
For all "normal" destroyers, frigates, minesweepers, submarines about 3 % annually. Cruiser, BB's and Carriers, all non-nuclear, about 4.5 %. And for nuclear powered vessels 8 % annually. Thats what I suggest.
Soviet Union
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West Germany
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That seems good. However, I want to ask, what salary we have to pay? There I would propose the GDP/person.
In most armies conscripts do the duties. And I know from own experiences how much they get. Resp. how low! If 3/4th of an army are conscripts you pay them about 55,- $ a month. Today the Bundeswehr pays 9,20 € per day. That are 276,- € a months. That were 53,01 $ in 1952 or 636,11 $ a year or in 1990 $ 3.148,74 $. Thus a salary of 3.661,- $ seems fair, to equalize the salaries of the officers and other professional soldiers.

Adler
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Argentina
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The system that Equuleus uses (which I also adopted, being the mere pawn of the Equuleusian Empire that I am), is to multiply the number of servicemen in a particular unit times the GDP per capita times 4 or 10, depending on what type of unit is it (4 for land, 10 for sea and air).

For instance, the B-29s I just bought each have 100 men to service and fly them.

(100 men) x (24 planes) x ($4717) x (10) = $113,208,000

This would be the annual operating cost, including salaries, housing and training.


I am not too crazy about this system, since it is wildly inaccurate and assumes too much about very different models. There is no fundamental spending difference between a FW-190 and a F-86, save in manpower. If we can get accurate operational estimates for all the units in the game, it would be a tremendous improvement.
Viva Perón!
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Ethiopia
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What is the definition of a conscript? How are you using them?

What evidence do you have that a country like Germany can really get away paying a swath of its population that kind of money? I'm not buying it.

This is most certainly not a volunteer Army that's for sure.

If you're gonna have conscripts, it's gonna face social issues inside and out.

There's not a whole lot of nations that can get away with paying their service men and women piss money.

Basically it's the nations that have less than $2000 per capita GDP rates.

I happen to be of the opinion that as time goes on, maintenance costs as a percentage of original overhead costs should go down. Maintenance costs in relation to original purchase costs should be highest right now, but decrease as the cost of input increases exponentially more than the exponential cost in nominal maintenance.

Try to find some maintenance figures on equipment that we are dealing with if you could Andi. Don't look at modern equipment.
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North Korea
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As a wise man once said, "throw money at it"
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