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A Call For Assistance
Topic Started: Aug 30 2008, 06:06 PM (1,049 Views)
Ethiopia
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Quote:
 
Actually, the top statement shows how wrecked the game balance already is when you consider the above to be basically no assets. In RL these assets would have been considered to be a respectable army and navy by most nations of the world including several European. - Sweden


I'm talking about compared to France, US, UK, and people that are looking to take the military lead in the game...while spending 3-3.5% on their militaries (a fraction of real life spending), with massive nuke stockpiles, accelerated research, accelerated development, and significantly higher economic growth to boot.

I don't really think my 200 tanks is tipping the balance out of whack a whole lot.

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Indeed there are conscripts in Afghanistan. But only those who volunteered. The problem is also not conscription, but the acceptance in population. A just war is accepted. A just war causes no big problems. That was the mistake of Vietnam. Not the draft. - Adler


There were protests in regards to the Korean war. In regards to comparing history, what is the tangible difference between the Korean war and the Vietnam War? What makes one instance of defending a sovereign nation from communist invasion "just". But an instance very similar to the other "unjust?" The difference between Korea and Vietnam was the media. If the media would have had more pull in Korea, it would have held more sway over the political climate of America during that time period.

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I ask you to understand my position. Not far ago my military was great, now it turned into crap. I am very confused.

You demand, that we spend more on our military. Okay, no problem at all. But you dont give us any numbers we could use to work with. You give somebody an aim, but you dont give him information how to get there.

I suggested an easy system to work with in regards to military spendings. It is pretty clear that we can talk about the numbers, but we would have the foundation to work with. It's like fishing in murky waters. We may search information which are maybe classified and not yet released. Why should we make this game more complicated than it has to be? Even though the information would be available, we are not replaying history. I did not act like the old Soviet Union under Stalin. I acted different. - Andi


Indeed. I agree with you whole heartedly Andi, and I most certainly understand your frustration. But that is why I have REPEATEDLY asked for assistance on these matters. That way there is less murk in the water when these budgets are created. I want to assuage some of this, which is why I have had a tendency to notify people AHEAD of time when they have had issues regarding this.

The flip side to that though, is that I don't really want to make it too structured. Maybe when I do budgets I can find a MatLab function that incorporate some variance in there. Because if we make things set in stone...then it's gonna be just like a computer game. Some of the fun is going to go away. Know what I mean?

I have reviewed the information provided on stats from books. I would really appreciate links to some information, but since people are coming up with similar data, I suppose we can roll with it and start getting something more structured.

I would be interested in looking at information in regards to how certain military budgets are split up in regards to pay. I'd like to see information on various nations. Like the US, UK, USSR, A middle eastern country, an African country, and some other European countries.
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USSR
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Proletarii vsekh stran, soyedinyaytes!
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I really appritiate your work, but frankly, you won't have real chances to find out something about the Soviet military budget in 1950 or 1951. Nobody really knows this, because many other factors, like the food and cloth has been deliverd for lesser money. This hidden subsidy makes it nearly impossible to find out something like it was in West Germany or the United States. Or you travel to Moscow and ask Mr. Putin for permission to take a look at.

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In 1988 military spending was a single line item in the Soviet state budget, totaling 21 billion rubles, or about US$33 billion. Western experts concluded that the 21 billion ruble figure reflected only operations and maintenance costs. The amount spent on Soviet weapons research and development was an especially well-guarded state secret, and other military spending, including training, military construction, and arms production, was concealed within the budgets of all-union ministries and state committees. Apart from considerations of state secrecy, this allocation of military spending to ministries other than the Ministry of Defense reflected the Soviet approach to managing resource allocation. Weapons produced by agencies such as the Ministry of General Machinebuilding [missiles] or the Ministry of Shipbuilding Industry [ships] were essentially provided as "free goods" to the Ministry of Defense.


As written above, you won't find out anything clear. Thus I ask you for permission to use my model as an exception, because of the nebulosity of Soviet military spendings.

Furthermore I dont know, why you dont want to have fixed rules. It gives you a feeling of security. Of course something can happen, you dont expect, but you can have a certain amount of money, to fix that. Normally all Western states should have very exact numbers how much maintenance, fuel and salary is. But they may be classified or whatever. Normally you know all the costs before introducing a certain equipment.

Quote:
 
Indeed. I agree with you whole heartedly Andi, and I most certainly understand your frustration. But that is why I have REPEATEDLY asked for assistance on these matters. That way there is less murk in the water when these budgets are created. I want to assuage some of this, which is why I have had a tendency to notify people AHEAD of time when they have had issues regarding this.


Frankly I understand this as a request to do the same crap, which Stalin did, again. But for sure, I wont do it. Because the crustification which has begun in the Stalin was the death penalty for the Soviet Union. It was the inability to reform itself due to the fact, that most of the Soviet elites have become used to these crusted structures.

Quote:
 
The flip side to that though, is that I don't really want to make it too structured. Maybe when I do budgets I can find a MatLab function that incorporate some variance in there. Because if we make things set in stone...then it's gonna be just like a computer game. Some of the fun is going to go away. Know what I mean?


What else than a computer game shoud this game be? For me, it is an ordinary forum based computer game. Neither more nor less. And I think for most of us. What is this game for you, Merk?
Soviet Union
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Sweden
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Ethiopia
Sep 6 2008, 08:48 PM
I'm talking about compared to France, US, UK, and people that are looking to take the military lead in the game...while spending 3-3.5% on their militaries (a fraction of real life spending), with massive nuke stockpiles, accelerated research, accelerated development, and significantly higher economic growth to boot.

I don't really think my 200 tanks is tipping the balance out of whack a whole lot.

I never said your tanks were tipping the balance: I pointed at your perception of them as an example of how the whole game is out of whack. When you think that 200 state-of-the-art Centurion tanks are 'basically no asset' it just presented a fine example of how blind we all seem to be of our hideously bloated militaries compared to RL. Personally I welcome any audit of our costs.
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