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| Surveyor Quest | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 10 2009, 07:14 PM (734 Views) | |
| warriorjames | Sep 15 2009, 09:26 PM Post #51 |
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forever wandering....
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@ Mai-If I did throw away Ancient's ability to use a sword and make it so 'a sword would break or burn when I touched it', my tamer weapon would be useless since its base form is a sword. @ NathanS- When ever someone thinks of a samurai, it's the katana that comes to mind for them. |
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| NathanS | Sep 15 2009, 10:18 PM Post #52 |
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Data Entity
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True, just noting it. Probably my bias against sword, worship, for lack of a better word, showing. |
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| Mai | Sep 15 2009, 11:05 PM Post #53 |
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The other female.
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Yeah, I kind of have a bias against swords as well. I think that they're pretty cliche. Seriously, everyone and their mom has a sword. Hence why VesuviAngemon (Arel's version on MagnaAngemon) has an axe instead of his traditional excalibur sword. Also, Ancient, it's pretty easy to get around the tamer-weapon thing. I see the weapon as something that bends to the tamers' needs. The weapon is linked to the tamer, thus it could totally pick up on the "I can't use a sword anymore" vibes and morph into something else. I don't think Chaos would be so cruel as to not let you change it if you wanted to, anyhow. |
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| NathanS | Sep 15 2009, 11:44 PM Post #54 |
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Data Entity
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See for me some thing like an ax isn't a whole lot better. It's still a melee weapon in a place with plenty of quick firing, unlimited ammo, ranged weapons/attacks. Though if the weapons are used more realistically I tend to be able to deal with them better. |
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| Grim Wolf | Sep 16 2009, 12:01 AM Post #55 |
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Friendship is Tragic
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If you want your characters to use a sword, you have to compensate for the obvious benefits provided for a gun. Admittedly, this is easier in the Digital World because strength is directly proportional, regardless of whether you have a sword or a machine gun. I still favor the sword if it's well-done, but... I mean, there's an entire section of Simon's Energy Quest (or will be, when I get some free time to work on it again) devoted to him developing a new kind of gun in order to blend his affinity for guns and his training in their use in with his physical moves, which are typically more useful. Swords are favored because they're a solid, adaptable weapon and because there's a lot of mythology and history around them (also fiction, but I assumed you knew that). A cliche can still be done well if you're willing to put in the time and effort to make it work; defaulting to an axe isn't always necessary. Also, Nathan, you're only right in a general battlefield sense (i.e. armies of peasants constantly raining down arrows could do a lot of damage). Samurai were a lot better than their knightly counterparts at dealing with archers, so they survived longer; it wasn't until the resurgence of guns following Perry's arrival in Japan the the age of the samurai truly came to an end, and even then it had one last hurrah (in the form of the Shinsengumi). Admittedly, they'd been in decline even then, but the point remains. Where was I? Ah, yes; any weapon can be good so long as you think it through sufficiently for your character and plan out how it could be used. |
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| Mai | Sep 16 2009, 12:08 AM Post #56 |
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The other female.
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To be perfectly honest, I don't like guns either. Too mechanical. It doesn't really feel like you're the one doing it. My favorites are actually the weapons that don't actually look like weapons, or the weapons that are triggered telepathically. Hence why Danielle's tamer weapon is a ring. |
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| Nova | Sep 16 2009, 01:18 AM Post #57 |
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Dragoon
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*Absolutely loves how Mai is selling her idea about the sword.* But Sir Grim is correct, any weapon can be made utterly badass if you put a lot of effort into it. Of course, i'm biased to swords because I own a few in real life. But I will eventually be playing with a lot more weapons, though I think the way my brain is reacting right now I may just take a stab at a sawed off shotgun by channeling a thunder bolt into it. XD Imagination's at work ^_^. |
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| Chaos Shadow | Sep 16 2009, 11:12 AM Post #58 |
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See you in your nightmares~
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That's right. When I murder someone, I prefer it to be completely personal! I want to feel the life ebb away from them, I want their blood coating my body, I want the visceral knowledge that their heart is stopping and that they can't breathe anymore! I want to feel their muscles to slack! THIS IS LIVING! ...which is why I prefer guns. Chaos is creative enough to use non-weapons as weapons (or maybe panicked enough; you can get real creative when you panic), but she's definitely not built for physical fighting, and using anything like a sword is completely out of the question; swordsmen are trained from childhood in the art of wielding a blade, and it takes years and years of training not only the sword, but the footwork and the reflexes, before they are combat-ready. Give a regular schmuck a sword and you'll get somebody highly unbalanced, unwieldy, and -- if you're throwing them into a fight -- very likely somebody dead. While we're here, can somebody inform me of the benefit of a sawed-off shotgun? Other than making it smaller and easier to wield, what makes it superior to an unmarred shotgun? |
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| Nova | Sep 16 2009, 11:39 AM Post #59 |
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Dragoon
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Absolutely nothing, smaller and easier to wield is what i am going for at close range. *is a more mid to close range fighter* |
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| warriorjames | Sep 16 2009, 02:10 PM Post #60 |
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forever wandering....
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I also just realized something: If I made it so Ancient couldn't wield a sword again, Strabi in his present form would be useless...since he essencially wields energy swords. I'd have to wait until I unlock the Beast Spirit form before I could continue to use Strabi. |
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| NathanS | Sep 16 2009, 02:22 PM Post #61 |
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Data Entity
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Your point about Samurai and arrows is partly true Grim but your wording is misleading. A lot of it had to do with cultural and technology. The bow largely feel out of favor for the higher class in Japan so not many heavily trained bow man were available. No the other hand the Longbow man of Britain gained some cultural currency and where well trained, which lead to devastating results as the battle Battle of Verneuil showed. Then Europe also developed the crossbow which really put the hurt on the knights. (another note. Well guns are easer to use they still do require some training to use in battle conditions. Even professionals only tend to get around a 30 to 40% hit rate.) And I do know about the cultural legacy swords tend to get, but me I prefer practical over what tends to be considered awesome. My feeling about guns and swords are best summed up by this. And I also have had some interest in real world tactics and strategy so when looking at battle I do tend to view them with that sort of angle rather then what's dramatic. Needles to say Elk will probably end up with a sub-machine gun since most battles are close quarters. Halle's getting nothing |
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| warriorjames | Sep 16 2009, 02:28 PM Post #62 |
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forever wandering....
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You obviously haven't met Twilight Sazuka... |
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| Chaos Shadow | Sep 16 2009, 02:34 PM Post #63 |
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See you in your nightmares~
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Ancient, there's a huge difference between an anime character -- who are designed to be fun and exciting to watch -- and real-world physics. In real-life, Twilight Suzuka wouldn't be able to do all the crazy things she does with a boken, and if she got shot, she would get shot, end of story. ...now that I'm thinking of it, why is she in ATL? She shouldn't be. There's a rule about pre-established characters being dragged in from other universes, and this includes NPCs as much as it does player characters. |
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| NathanS | Sep 16 2009, 02:38 PM Post #64 |
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Data Entity
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Like I said I just have a preference for combat more grounded in reality. I'm not putting down people who like the more wild stuff, that's just not what I'm into. |
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| warriorjames | Sep 16 2009, 03:45 PM Post #65 |
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forever wandering....
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Sazuka entered to help protect the Greymon village. After that, she's been following along to ensure our rears don't get handed to us. Believe it or not, I was going to remove Sazuka and Zenith from ATL after the 2nd item was obtained since they've just about served their purpose. Anyway, while the 'trade the ability to ever wield a sword again' concept by Mai is starting to sound interesting (imagine Ancient throwing around a Horsman's Pick (type of war hammer)), we run into a few problems. The first is the tamer weapon, but some are saying that it will probably transform itself to dance around this problem. The second is Strabi, who's civil form is a 'lightsaber' wielding form. Would the 'no sword wielding' concept only apply to Ancient and not Strabi? |
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| Chaos Shadow | Sep 16 2009, 03:51 PM Post #66 |
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See you in your nightmares~
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Strabi is still Ancient, but seriously? It's not like I've never allowed people to change something around, and it's not like you instantly lose all sword-wielding capacity ever right off the bat; it's a slow thing as you go through the levels. I also wouldn't say that his touch obliterates a sword, because that's kind of dumb. I would favor Ray's concept, where he slowly loses his ability to wield them properly, forgets the muscle memory associated with the abilities until he just... he can touch a sword, and theoretically swing it, but all of his training is obliterated and his body just cannot become accustomed to wielding them again, regardless of his attempts to go through the motions. That feels a lot more powerful than 'every sword I touch turns to dust', because you would be able to hold the weapon again, but it never feels right, and you can never mimic anything more than the most crude of movements, as though you had never handled one before. An old memory ever out of reach, taunting you every time you are given a sword, or every time somebody else wields them. |
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| warriorjames | Sep 16 2009, 03:59 PM Post #67 |
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forever wandering....
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So if I go through with this, Strabi suffers as well? |
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| Nova | Sep 16 2009, 04:04 PM Post #68 |
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Dragoon
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Energy weapons are just that, energy weapons. I am sure they can be modded into whatever form they need to be. mutable energy is by nature mutable. <_< Happy Mom? XD |
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| Chaos Shadow | Sep 16 2009, 04:08 PM Post #69 |
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See you in your nightmares~
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'Tangible' meaning 'touchable'. I think you mean mutable energy, which is mutable -- meaning changeable. |
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| warriorjames | Sep 16 2009, 05:00 PM Post #70 |
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forever wandering....
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Then that means that, if I go through with this, I'm most likely changing Strabi's Finisher and two offensive strikes around...since I won't be as effective with a sword, correct? (yea, i know I'm getting annoying, but I want to be 100% sure on everything before I start this.) |
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| Ray Za Yueryuu | Sep 16 2009, 05:05 PM Post #71 |
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Don't Cry
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The answer is yes. I don't know the moves off the top of my head and am far too lazy to look them up when you have a dragon incubator instead of profile links in your sig, but you would just end up re-gearing any sword-reliant moves to suit whatever form of weapon you decide to wield once that happens. My name is Chaos Shadow, and I approve this message. |
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| warriorjames | Sep 16 2009, 05:13 PM Post #72 |
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forever wandering....
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And now I'm off to work on the surveyor quest. The Dragon Incubator may be going soon. |
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| Grim Wolf | Sep 16 2009, 08:40 PM Post #73 |
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Friendship is Tragic
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Except that's a little misleading, too, Nathan. You're thinking mainly thinking of the gun; while the introduction of the bow did still devalue the samurai, it simply didn't do so to the same degree as it did to the knights. A samurai was still a powerful asset in battle because a single samurai could still be so damned effective against other infantry even en masse. For guns, though, you'd be entirely correct. In the seventeenth century Japan had by far the best guns in the world, but the bushido culture was so opposed to their use that they were repressed. I'll concede a cultural influence there, but the bow thing honestly lacked the enormous military advantage in Japan that it had in England. And yeah, Ancient, that could be an interesting direction to take with your character. Don't always listen to Chaos, though; we all know she only murders her characters for catharsis. You really want to end up like her? |
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| warriorjames | Sep 16 2009, 09:02 PM Post #74 |
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forever wandering....
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Don't worry, I don't think I'll follow Chaos. BTW, I'm at 7000 words now. Combining parts 1 and 2. ^_^ |
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| Chaos Shadow | Sep 16 2009, 09:13 PM Post #75 |
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See you in your nightmares~
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Hey now, it wasn't even my idea. I was just extrapolating. Also, Ancient, you mentioned that incubator might be going? Please make it go. Your signature is ridiculous huge now. EDIT : Thanks for that. |
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| Chaos Shadow | Sep 21 2009, 08:57 PM Post #76 |
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See you in your nightmares~
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And since it's vaguely related, a fair while ago, I added a Digivice Upgrade over in the Exclusive Upgrades shop, and I also added karma cost to the Dimension Ripper (but not the ASF, just to mess with you). It's the Viral Pulse. And you can buy it and pretend your Michelle Goodman. If you're... into that sort of thing. |
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| Mai | Sep 21 2009, 09:23 PM Post #77 |
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The other female.
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Meh, 400 karma is WAY more than I would every want to pay for either of those. Especially the viral pulse thingy. |
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