Vigilante Justice?

Welcome to Coffeetalk. We hope you enjoy your visit.

You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.

Join our community!

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Pages:
1
2

Vigilante Justice?; Or, too much Boondock Saints?
Topic Started: Apr 19 2006, 02:17 AM (457 Views)
Bex	Apr 19 2006, 02:17 AM Post #1
puppet dictator Posts: 3,209 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: February 14, 2006	So, while waiting for my Chinese takeout to be ready, I was reading the paper, specifically an article about Stephen Marshall, who killed two registered sex offenders in separate towns, then fatally shot himself on a public bus. Police are baffled, because they can't find a motive for the killings (other than the obvious vigilantism). They're going to look at his personal effects (papers and computer) for clues, but at the moment, there's no connection. With that little information, my inclination is that Marshall had already decided to kill himself, and looked into US sex offender registries for the closest individuals to "take with him," so to speak. The act may have been carried out in a rational manner, but I don't believe it was inspired in a stable mind. I'm interested in people's views on vigilantes, and on the kind of police records that are open to the public. The aforementioned US registries are available online for most states, but in Canada, similar databases are for police use only.
	I belong to one of those families that does not speak to or see its members as often as we should, but if someone needed anyone to fall on a sword for her, there would be a queue waiting to commit the deed. -Min Jin Lee


Silk	Apr 19 2006, 02:30 AM Post #2
Black Posts: 145 Group: Members Member #27 Joined: April 8, 2006	This concerns me because it sets a precedent. I'm unsure whether I can access a list of registered sex offenders (or any other offender) online because, frankly, I've never wanted to do so. I know that at one stage, New Zealanders were clamouring to have a list of sex offenders made public. To me, that sort of list is tantamount to invasion of privacy. There may be method behind Mr Marshall's madness and perhaps the police will uncover it in his personal effects. However ... justice is for the courts to decide and the sort of information Stephen Marshall was able to access should not be available to the public.
	"We'll try being kinder if you'll try being smarter"


Joe	Apr 19 2006, 07:06 AM Post #3
Coffea Canephora Posts: 725 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: April 10, 2006	I fully support the availability of such information.
	In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing


jester	Apr 19 2006, 01:02 PM Post #4
Green Posts: 32 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: February 21, 2006	Vigilantes should be hunted down and killed. Their offspring should be sold, their houses burned and their dogs castrated. Come to think about it everything has to be an offence punishable by the death penalty as with everything public a new start is impossible for those who try to make amends and change.
	You maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God... damn you all to hell!


Joe	Apr 19 2006, 05:41 PM Post #5
Coffea Canephora Posts: 725 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: April 10, 2006	I should have the right to know where these fucks are in relation to my children.
	In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing


SimDing0's_Bitch	Apr 19 2006, 06:49 PM Post #6
Hot Chocolate Posts: 8 Group: Members Member #39 Joined: April 19, 2006	[QUOTE=Joe,Apr 20 2006, 12:41 AM] I should have the right to know where these fucks are in relation to my children. [/QUOTE] They have 2 register w/e they move sumwhere. I have no pitty 4 ppl like that. Prisons r overcrowded. Ded 1s don't do it a 2nd time.
	Anally mastered by SimDing0� and loving it.


Evi	Apr 19 2006, 07:38 PM Post #7
Over the Moon Posts: 207 Group: Members Member #21 Joined: March 22, 2006	Here, police records are not open to public, you have to file a petition first and they check if there's a good reason to give you such information. I'm not sure what to think about it. On the one hand I'm all for personal rights, on the other hand my sympathy for sex offenders is at an all-time low.
	And yet, as of late there have been troubling rumors heard across the Realms. Rumors of a new minor deity gaining power in the East, one so far only known as the God of Sarcasm. -- Laufey, Edwin Romance


Joe	Apr 19 2006, 09:11 PM Post #8
Coffea Canephora Posts: 725 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: April 10, 2006	I might be mistaken, but I believe the recidivism rate for sex-offenders is extremely high. That is something to consider, big-time.
	In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing


jester	Apr 19 2006, 09:19 PM Post #9
Green Posts: 32 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: February 21, 2006	I KNOW for a fact that Joe has been involved in several date rape incidents. He also likes to strangle a kitten every now and then. Still he lectures people about morals to keep up this charade. @Evi: What about people in rehab, counselling or wrongfully accused people? I have no sympathy for sexual offenders, but you never know when you are at the receiving end of a judicial error.
	You maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God... damn you all to hell!


Evi	Apr 19 2006, 09:38 PM Post #10
Over the Moon Posts: 207 Group: Members Member #21 Joined: March 22, 2006	Well, I guess the way it is right now - protection of privacy - is still better than what Bex described, but only if they judge said offenders more carefully (recently, there were some cases in the news where the responsible psychologists obviously failed and a couple of sex offenders did it again shortly after they had been released). I still believe it's worse to be at the receiving end of such a crime than of a judicial error.
	And yet, as of late there have been troubling rumors heard across the Realms. Rumors of a new minor deity gaining power in the East, one so far only known as the God of Sarcasm. -- Laufey, Edwin Romance


jester	Apr 19 2006, 11:09 PM Post #11
Green Posts: 32 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: February 21, 2006	I think you'd be equally screwed, but that is beside the point. Where do you draw the line? What offences should be punishable in the eyes of joe public and who is allowed to go free? Whatever I might have allegedly done, I want to go to court, godammit, not being shot by a suicidal stranger. I for one don't want to stare down the barrel of Travis Bickle
	You maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God... damn you all to hell!


Joe	Apr 19 2006, 11:20 PM Post #12
Coffea Canephora Posts: 725 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: April 10, 2006	Be reasonable. What are the chances you will be wrongfully convicted as a sex offender? What are the chances, after that, that an enraged citizen will try to murder you? That's not e'en likely for [i]rightfully[/i] convicted sex offenders. That's not a very good place to base your laws.
	In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing


Silk	Apr 20 2006, 12:40 AM Post #13
Black Posts: 145 Group: Members Member #27 Joined: April 8, 2006	[QUOTE=Joe,Apr 20 2006, 05:41 AM]I should have the right to know where these fucks are in relation to my children.[/QUOTE] Unfortunate choice of words.
	"We'll try being kinder if you'll try being smarter"


icelus	Apr 20 2006, 12:42 AM Post #14
sans titre Posts: 212 Group: Members Member #3 Joined: February 11, 2006	[QUOTE=Joe,Apr 19 2006, 11:41 AM] I should have the right to know where these fucks are in relation to my children. [/QUOTE] I think you having children should be more of a crime. :)
	"Due to lack of interest, tomorrow is canceled."


Drew	Apr 20 2006, 01:40 AM Post #15
Apparently not Cybersquirt's favorite person Posts: 373 Group: Members Member #2 Joined: February 11, 2006	@Joe: He [i]is[/i] being reasonable. So are you. It's a complicated issue....and as with most such things there are no easy answers.
	Poor baby. Couldn't find a fight anywhere else so you had to come here, huh. -Cyber.


Bex	Apr 20 2006, 01:53 AM Post #16
puppet dictator Posts: 3,209 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: February 14, 2006	I wouldn't have posted the topic if I thought there was an easy answer, because that seldom makes for an interesting discussion. I think the life of anyone who has been to jail is tough enough without making information on their conviction available to all and sundry. Some really do want to live as productive members of society, and prejudice cannot help in this matter. Information should, of course, be available to law enforcement officers to help them do their job. On the other hand, there is the undeniable risk of reoffending. The thing is, I'm sure we never hear a word about anybody who serves their time, then moves on and lives the rest of their life in relative peace and harmony. Why would we? Anonymity is probably the only thing that could allow them to do so in the first place. I keep meaning to watch that Kevin Bacon movie that came out last year, The Woodsman, but I haven't gotten around to it.
	I belong to one of those families that does not speak to or see its members as often as we should, but if someone needed anyone to fall on a sword for her, there would be a queue waiting to commit the deed. -Min Jin Lee


Joe	Apr 20 2006, 02:22 AM Post #17
Coffea Canephora Posts: 725 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: April 10, 2006	[QUOTE=Drew,Apr 19 2006, 06:40 PM] @Joe: He [i]is[/i] being reasonable. So are you. It's a complicated issue....and as with most such things there are no easy answers. [/QUOTE] Well I didn't mean to suggest he was acting like a nut or a fanatic. :) I just meant to say let's reason out the math.
	In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing


jester	Apr 20 2006, 07:14 AM Post #18
Green Posts: 32 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: February 21, 2006	Joe, I understand your POV, but believe in the good nature af man. Why be a christian, if there is no chance for forgiveness in this world? I agree with Bex' distinction. We never hear about everybody who changes. Anyway apart from the sex offender addition. I don't want anybody to take the law into their own hands. My not very subtle example of slander above, which was basically ignored althogether, should have demonstrated that passing judgement on ssomebody by hearsay is always tricky. It might not work in a forum, but put it in your local newspaper and then try to deny it. You may find your friends more or less attentive, but there is no way you could convince your whole town. I am curious. Is this information only available for sex-offenders or all sorts of crimes?
	You maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God... damn you all to hell!


Bex	Apr 20 2006, 02:11 PM Post #19
puppet dictator Posts: 3,209 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: February 14, 2006	My understanding is that it is a registry only for convicted sex offenders. Of course, not being American, I may have missed something.
	I belong to one of those families that does not speak to or see its members as often as we should, but if someone needed anyone to fall on a sword for her, there would be a queue waiting to commit the deed. -Min Jin Lee


Drew	Apr 20 2006, 04:58 PM Post #20
Apparently not Cybersquirt's favorite person Posts: 373 Group: Members Member #2 Joined: February 11, 2006	That's right, Bex. Only sex offenders are required to register everywhere they go. They also aren't allowed to live within a certain distance of a daycare center or elementary/middle school.
	Poor baby. Couldn't find a fight anywhere else so you had to come here, huh. -Cyber.


Joe	Apr 20 2006, 06:12 PM Post #21
Coffea Canephora Posts: 725 Group: Members Member #30 Joined: April 10, 2006	jester: Forgiveness is different than trust.
	In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing


Bex	Apr 20 2006, 06:59 PM Post #22
puppet dictator Posts: 3,209 Group: Admin Member #6 Joined: February 14, 2006	Even though it makes sense to keep certain kinds of offenders away from children (and that's the policy here as well, I believe), it seems a bit strange that someone with a record for an assault on an adult would be subject to an identical stipulation. I understand that it's just a general precautionary measure, but it speaks a great deal of a prevalent mentality that all sexual predators think and act alike, which is not just misleading, it can be dangerous.
	I belong to one of those families that does not speak to or see its members as often as we should, but if someone needed anyone to fall on a sword for her, there would be a queue waiting to commit the deed. -Min Jin Lee


jester	Apr 20 2006, 10:37 PM Post #23
Green Posts: 32 Group: Members Member #9 Joined: February 21, 2006	I would especially label violent and hate related crimes under the precaution idea. If somebody already pulled a trigger on somebody else, anything can provoke them to do the same again. Perhaps a label on the houses would do, but then these folks could still roam the streets unknown to their prey. Edit: Seriously I am not afraid of rapists, mainly because I don't have any kids yet, but I think everybody with a tendency to violence is far more scary to me.
	You maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God... damn you all to hell!


Drew	Apr 20 2006, 10:49 PM Post #24
Apparently not Cybersquirt's favorite person Posts: 373 Group: Members Member #2 Joined: February 11, 2006	[QUOTE=jester,Apr 20 2006, 10:37 PM] Edit: Seriously I am not afraid of rapists, mainly because I don't have any kids yet, but I think everybody with a tendency to violence is far more scary to me. [/QUOTE] Agreed. If given the choice between being dead and being someone's bitch I'd choose the latter.
	Poor baby. Couldn't find a fight anywhere else so you had to come here, huh. -Cyber.


Regullus	Apr 21 2006, 12:44 PM Post #25
The Ozzie Posts: 5,240 Group: Admin Member #4 Joined: February 11, 2006	The Cucumber Incident: [URL=http://beecharming.com/cucumber/textversion.htm]http://beecharming.com/cucumber/textversion.htm[/URL] Canadian Recidivism Study on Sexual Offenders: [URL=http://www.johnhoward.ab.ca/PUB/PDF/C24.pdf]http://www.johnhoward.ab.ca/PUB/PDF/C24.pdf[/URL] Edited to Add: I have an acquaintance who works in the Colorado Prison system. Her job is fill out a questionaire that decides what type of prison the offender will go, ie, minimum, etc. I ran into her at a resturant one night and I made the mistake of idly asking her what was the worst case she had encountered. She told me that the worst case was that of a man that sexually abused his girlfriend's 7 year old with her mother's acquiescence. He started abusing the girl when she was 3 years old. He forced the child to engage in three way sexual acts with her mother among many other perversions and would videotape the activities. He received 40 years in jail. What bothered my friend most of all was the perpetrator was outraged and indignant at his sentence. He didn't claim he was innocent, he just didn't think his activities merited any punishment.
	tempus_teapot I'd like to add that at this point I have taken my Spider Jerusalem action figure and tied his wrist to my Cassidy (from Preacher) action figure just so I can work out which positions are feasible with them and which aren't. Read that and weep, internet. Weep!


1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)


Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Archive #01 · Next Topic »

Pages:
1
2