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| Pinochet is dead | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 10 2006, 11:26 PM (201 Views) | |
| Eral | Dec 10 2006, 11:26 PM Post #1 |
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Kopi Luwak
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He died aged 91, surrounded by his family after superlative medical care, and an angioplasty last week. His last statement says he accepted political responsibility for the events that occurred during his regime, and held no rancour against anyone. Well, why should he hold rancour against anybody? Those people still wondering where their disappeared loved ones are buried - might be holding some rancour. Salvador Allende's daughter - she might be holding some rancour. But I'd say old Augustus had a pretty good run and no reason to be pissed off with anyone. It was a classic case of "get out of jail free" because too many other political leaders and countries would be implicated if ever he had been brought to trial: too much mud slinging and too many secrets getting out. I get all conflicted when we start talking justice/retribution when the person accused is very frail and elderly: I feel compassion towards the individual, and yet, the fact that they got to be old and frail is an injustice in itself. I can't bring myself to just let their crimes pass: but I can't bring myself to chuck them in jail either. I think it would help if they would say "yep, I did an horrendously bad thing, I killed all those people, it was evil, I repent" and paid massive amounts of compensation and built a big memorial. It would make living on in the lap of luxury a little less insulting to the dead and survivors. I understand his family backing him, and supporting him. It can't be easy to turn around one day and say "you're a mass murderer Grandad, I despise you". A woman I worked with said most people wouldn't turn on their parents/grandparents on discovering something like that in their past. But I still believe it makes them complicit. |
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| Blood_Raven | Dec 11 2006, 01:38 PM Post #2 |
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Come burn with me.
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I am sure people will pay their respects by pissing on his grave. |
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TheFrozen North forums. Where it's at. Mood for today: Perfection | |
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| Joe | Dec 11 2006, 07:52 PM Post #3 |
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Coffea Canephora
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That's ridiculous. |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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| Bex | Dec 11 2006, 08:14 PM Post #4 |
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puppet dictator
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I think it's a very tough position to be in. People tend to feel some degree of love for their blood relations regardless of any abuses they might have personally suffered at that person's hands. Adding a degree of separation makes the experience that much more abstract and difficult to reconcile, and I think the numbers involved are likely irrelevant. I mean, if your grandfather is a murderer, what does it matter to you if it was one person or twenty or twenty thousand? You still either condemn him or you don't. |
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I belong to one of those families that does not speak to or see its members as often as we should, but if someone needed anyone to fall on a sword for her, there would be a queue waiting to commit the deed. -Min Jin Lee | |
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| Krazy | Dec 11 2006, 08:46 PM Post #5 |
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I haz powah!
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I don't really have anything else to add, other than I agree with Joe's viewpoint that you cannot be held responsible for another's actions in that way. Even if you openly opposed that family member, what are you going to do? You'd in effect be throwing your life away for the moral high ground. |
| "Well, ‘course dis one’s betta! It’s lotz ‘eavier, and gots dem spikey bitz on de ends. " | |
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| Eral | Dec 11 2006, 09:29 PM Post #6 |
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Kopi Luwak
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Krazy: being complicit isn't the same as being held responsible; it's like being an accessory after the fact. If my grandad had murdered one person, I might accept that it was a one-off act, and understand the feelings that motivated him. But murdering 20 000 people takes a bit more organisation and effort, and longer. You have to be quite committed to the process of exterminating 20 000 people. Wouldn't you be sort of appalled to find your grandad had it in him? How do you justify those deaths to yourself? If my grandad, and thus my family, also became obscenely wealthy off the backs of those dead people, then I'd need to take a good long look at my life. I may not want to repudiate him, but I might be acknowledging that what he did was evil. How do you look at women with pictures of their dead brother pinned to their dresses, and not feel like a schmuck? The pictures of people protesting outside the hospital suggest to me that security around his grave will need to be quite strong: that's one grave that's up for a lot of re-decorating, as BR suggests. |
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| underdog | Dec 11 2006, 09:32 PM Post #7 |
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Irish Breakfast
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The only way I could see them as being complicit is if they were involved iw what he was doing, like Saddams kids were, but if they weren't taking part in it probably not, I mean what could they have done? and grandchildren probably weren't alive at the time. |
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| Eral | Dec 11 2006, 09:43 PM Post #8 |
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Kopi Luwak
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Which I agree makes it harder to deal with. But how are they explaining the pictures of the dead people to themselves? Some time down the track someone with the surname Pinochet needs to make an acknowledgement of the suffering Augusto caused. |
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| Krazy | Dec 11 2006, 09:51 PM Post #9 |
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I haz powah!
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But the grandchildren are unlikely to be complicit as I understand it. Just because they get the wealth however it was gained is not their fault. So they acknowledge what was done, so what? How does that change things? I reckon its very cold comfort to those left that the grandchildren regret their grandfather's actions. |
| "Well, ‘course dis one’s betta! It’s lotz ‘eavier, and gots dem spikey bitz on de ends. " | |
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| Eral | Dec 11 2006, 10:23 PM Post #10 |
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Kopi Luwak
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If wealth is obtained illegally, inheritance is more of a moral quandary. Granted, you are not going to say no to your palatial mansion and all the comforts of life, but it's different to inheriting from legal sources. A bit tainted, you might say. Hearing his family acknowledge what he did as evil is a damn sight better than listening to everyone saying what a hero he was, I bet. Justice? Vindication? |
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| Joe | Dec 11 2006, 11:01 PM Post #11 |
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Coffea Canephora
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"There is a difference between not liking one's brother and not caring when some dumb Irish flat-foot drops him out of a window." |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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