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| A Small Town Shooting; A Situation We've Heard Before | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 2 2007, 10:32 PM (216 Views) | |
| Regullus | Jan 2 2007, 10:32 PM Post #1 |
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Reliant
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Two Shot 2nd Shooting Victim Identified A Short Bio of One of the Victims Not a unique type of shooting but I know these people. The shooter is my neighbor and has worked for my mother, off and on, for years. His wife (about to be ex-wife) works at my veterinarian, for years. I know their eleven year old son and their seventeen year old daughter who works at the local newstand. They weren't my friends but they are friends of friends and they were my neighbors. A nice (maybe not) man who was a good and hard worker, a nice woman who worked hard and the two of them raised two nice kids and something like this happens and the destruction it causes is immeasurable. It has been said through the grapevine, the wife may lose limbs, the 2nd victim is in a coma and had to go into surgery a second time for the stomach wounds. There was a seven hour standoff at my neighbor's house and it is said his son, eleven years old, was used as a shield by his father. The motive may have been simply 'jealousy' or (whatever the emotion may be). I saw him thirty six hours before he shot these people and had I known the state he was in, , I could have... , we all could have maybe prevented it. Instead many people have had their lives irrevocably changed. In retrospect, he was out of sorts, he did look stressed but I didn't know and he had tons of people to support him and he chose to take another route. It's really hit home for me this type of crime. It's so easy to solve but almost impossible to prevent. I drive by this guy's house at least twice a day and I think of his son, and I go to my mother's and I see the work he just did and I wish... that it had been prevented. Edit - Missing word. |
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| Eral | Jan 3 2007, 12:28 AM Post #2 |
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Kopi Luwak
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That is just horrible. The poor young son: his mother killed(Edit:shot) by his father, and his house surrounded by police for hours. How could his father do that to him? Imagine how the daughter felt. And the wife of the man who was shot. Just too sad and awful. I don't think it could have been prevented, unless the man had gone and talked to someone he knew well and got professional help. When you see a neighbour and say "How're you doing?" they usually say "Fine", or maybe a grin and "Don't ask." He would never have said, "I'm struggling with the urge to go and shoot my ex-wife". I'd have presumed he was joking even if he did. What a horrible chasm between the private and the public life. |
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| Bex | Jan 3 2007, 12:39 AM Post #3 |
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puppet dictator
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Not killed, just badly injured, for whatever that's worth. It is dreadful. Knowing somebody involved in a violent crime always makes the impact of it on other lives more obvious. |
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I belong to one of those families that does not speak to or see its members as often as we should, but if someone needed anyone to fall on a sword for her, there would be a queue waiting to commit the deed. -Min Jin Lee | |
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| Eral | Jan 3 2007, 04:01 AM Post #4 |
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Kopi Luwak
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Fixed. I hope she does survive: and that her injuries won't mean a life of disability. Is it just a case of going snap, and doing something completely out of character? Or is it an inevitable progress in a habit of violence? Sometimes I wonder if it happens in a warped stage of depression. "They had a violent marriage." Family members knew this? How violent? And, the question arises, who did what to whom? Most of the women killed by a violent partner are murdered after they leave him. |
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| Regullus | Jan 3 2007, 04:50 AM Post #5 |
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Reliant
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I don't want to categorize either the wife as only a domestic abuse victim or the husband simply as an abuser. They were both more complex than that. The people I knew and I didn't know them well but they were not so comfortably one dimensional as to be defined as an abuser or abused. I think that's another reason why this has hit me harder than usual. The uncle said there had been a history of volatility but he did say both were good at pushing the others buttons. The woman I saw was not a little abused mouse. She appeared an attractive, articulate and competent woman. It is obvious there were arguments that ended with physical contact, how often, how one sided and how serious were the injuries? I don't know. She was obviously the motivator for the divorce and it was clear that she had had enough of the marriage. He did discuss the divorce with me but me in a minor and relatively relaxed way and he was getting counseling which he did seem to find helpful in increasing self awareness of his actions. Apparently, the male victim, is a well-known philanderer although some effort is being made for the sake of his family to push the idea the victims were simply friends and the husband misinterpreted the situation. My husband knows the male victim and has a very low opinion of him. I have heard that the most dangerous time for a woman leaving a marriage is within the first two years. Divorce is a very difficult time with a lot of upheaval, financial and emotional, add children, add new lovers and it is a very volatile cocktail. |
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| Eral | Jan 3 2007, 06:21 AM Post #6 |
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Kopi Luwak
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I don't want to categorise/simplify either, but neither do I want to support the myth that just as many men are abused by their wives, as women are by their husbands. Violence in relationships is usually secret, and there is no FBI profile of an abusive partner. Love and hate seem to get intertwined. We have just a case of a woman who was murdered by her husband after she seperated from him after 17 years: he got a 3 year sentence on the grounds of provocation. She allegedly taunted him that she found her new lover a much more satisfying sexual partner. Three of my four aunties married violent abusive men: only one left the marriage. None of them are weak or downtrodden: one chose her children's safety and left, one chose to support her husband and lose ties with her children, one found the violence stopped when she got a job and gained financial independence and has a very happy relationship now. I see the real estate agent was a complete schmuck. So sad for his wife. |
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| Krazy | Jan 3 2007, 11:25 AM Post #7 |
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I haz powah!
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:( |
| "Well, ‘course dis one’s betta! It’s lotz ‘eavier, and gots dem spikey bitz on de ends. " | |
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| Regullus | Jan 3 2007, 02:10 PM Post #8 |
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Reliant
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I knew her thru her work and she was good at her job and I can only say that she didn't appear to be a victim but I don't know. In the past, society would automatically blame the woman or claim it was the man's right or some such idiocy and today we've gone the other extreme. By labeling someone simply a victim it seems to me is in a way equally demeaning because it strips someone of their identity and accomplishments and reduces them to an object of pity. If I didn't 'know' these people, I would comfortably reduce them to an awful abuser and a pitiful victim. Honestly, that's an accurate description. I have to say I don't understand why he is being charged with first degree assault which carries a maximun sentence of 15 yrs but perhaps he is being charged with two counts? It does seem to me if you drive over to someone's house armed and then proceed to shoot two people multiple times that it's an attempted murder. I could see beating people up as an assualt but not shooting them. Maybe the two charges carry the same penalties? A pointless crime with horrible consequences for all. As I get older I find fewer and fewer justifications for killing someone. My husband had an ex-employer who went thru a nasty divorce and at one point her husband taunted her about his new lover who was tall and blonde and kinky as hell in bed while the ex-employer was the opposite. She was pretty upset but she didn't shoot him, in fact, she later re-married him which surprised me because there had been a lot of bad behavior on his part including a internet sex club that included the keeping of pubic hair as some sort of repulsive trophy. ![]() I've just had an update and the gun used was a powerful magnum (the type used in the Dirty Harry movies) and Sandy has taken a turn for the worse and is possibly dying. |
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| Regullus | Jan 3 2007, 02:29 PM Post #9 |
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Reliant
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Newest article: Background Details The difference between the public and private facades, indeed. I'm glad Cody got to see his mother. |
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| Boeing | Jan 3 2007, 09:22 PM Post #10 |
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Yellow
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Sorry to hear that. |
| I want you. I want you so bad. I want you so bad it's driving me mad. She's so heavy! | |
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| Eral | Jan 3 2007, 10:49 PM Post #11 |
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Kopi Luwak
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The rad fem in me gets pissed off by terms like "family violence" and "domestic violence" which suggest everyone is joining in, which is not the case. The word victim has connotations of "pathetic",and I don't like it either, but it's better than words that suggest the woman is to blame for being abused. I really hope your husband's ex-employer got help and realised that her bastard of a husband was manipulating her shamefully. She probably had not one shred of self-esteem left. So needing the Feminist SWAT team to arrive and rescue her. I cannot BELIEVE the carpenter isn't being charged with attempted murder.
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| Regullus | Jan 4 2007, 01:30 AM Post #12 |
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Reliant
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I've obviously been linking the wrong newspapers. The latest: Details emerge in double shooting Assault charges could be upgraded to attempted murder It looks like the son was with the father during the shooting. Why the wife ignored the threatening messages from the almost ex-husband is beyond me, let alone went out on a date with the guy, I would've gotten out of Dodge. Re: Ex-employer - It was a nasty divorce but the re-marriage seems to work.
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| Eral | Jan 4 2007, 11:52 PM Post #13 |
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Kopi Luwak
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The father took the son with him to shoot the mother? That is one boy in dire need of counselling.
:o I think she was finished with letting him control her life. She'd already spent 17 years doing that. Leaving her job, her home, uprooting her daughter, not seeing her son - I can see why she didn't. I wish he would go to jail forever: but he'll get off after a few years. :( I see why women kill their abusive husbands when they are asleep. The re-marriage works??
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| Joe | Jan 5 2007, 12:34 AM Post #14 |
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Coffea Canephora
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On a related note, someone's throat was slit at the high school I went to, where my sister is currently enrolled. |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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| Regullus | Jan 5 2007, 01:54 AM Post #15 |
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Reliant
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IRT Eral - The wife moved out of the marital home in Dublin and moved ten minutes away and within walking distance of her long time work. The children both remained at the same schools. Both husband and wife grew up in the area and have large families and strong ties to the community. Had either one of them moved from the area this wouldn't have happened. The husband had custody of the boy (by mutual consent) and the daughter was staying with the wife. Apparently there were dueling restraining orders. Part of the problem with the situation is that everybody was interconnected and it was easy enough to hear what the other was doing and obsess over it. Everybody knows your business (well not necessarily) and can use it against you and I think it adds stress to an already stressful situation, an added humiliation and gossip. I hope the person that told the husband about the "friend" feels very guilty. I am astonished that the wife ignored the threatening phone messages. IRT Joe - That's terrible, very sad. Did the person survive? I've forgotten what area of the country you live in, is it an urban area? |
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| Joe | Jan 5 2007, 02:06 AM Post #16 |
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Coffea Canephora
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As far as I know, the person survived. I live on the border of Martinez, California, next to Concord and Pleasant Hill. The school itself is in Pleasant Hill. Martinez has a side that is more urban and a side that is more suburban, but the urban part has its own high school (where, interestingly, a current cast-member of the Real World is from); I live on the suburban side, which is closer to Pleasant Hill (a very suburban city). It's not a school where you'd expect something like this to happen. I don't think they know the identity of the criminal, so he may not have even been a student. |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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| Eral | Jan 5 2007, 03:26 AM Post #17 |
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Kopi Luwak
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I bet if she had moved further away, he would have followed her, and continued threatening her. It might look like it was about jealousy, but I think it was about control and subjection. Obsessing over your ex's new relationship is kind of normal, and may have been aggravated by the intimacy of the community: but once you decide to get a gun and shoot your ex for moving on, you are officially in the wrong and have no excuse at all. She could have gotten a an intervention order: but it wouldn't have helped. Perhaps if she had said, "Don't come round" to the schmuck, it wouldn't have happened that day, but how long was she supposed to wait? How long was the husband going to come around with a gun checking that she didn't have a boyfriend? She defied him, he punished her. :( It wasn't wise of her, but I can see why she didn't want to placate him anymore. |
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| Regullus | Jan 5 2007, 03:59 PM Post #18 |
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Reliant
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I don't think the shootings were an inevitable progression of this relationship. I understand the wife's reasonable point of view, we're almost divorced, you've been telling me what to do for over 1/2 my life and you don't have the right to tell me what to do. I agree with it but I think the man snapped and I think if I had been married to a volatile character I would perhaps have taken the threatening phone messages more seriously. I'm not blaming the wife, I'm simply saying that I think this could have been avoided if... but maybe not. The burden of this horrific sequence of acts is the man's. Had he sought out counseling the week before the divorce. Had he talked about these feelings or had he simply accepted the end of the relationship, none of this would have happened. I have a friend who is married to a nice and well educated man and at one point they discussed divorce and he freaked, He didn't physically attack her but he was very on edge and unpredictable and hostile, it was a very tense situation for a while. I think we forget how difficult a divorce can be and I do think people can be react very badly in these situations. Fortunately guns are a minority response but bad behavior is fairly normal. I'm pretty mellow but if I just happened to be driving with a can full of paint, and I just happened to pass my soon to be ex-husband driving, I might be tempted to introduce my paint to his car, as long as I wouldn't get caught. |
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| Eral | Jan 6 2007, 01:15 AM Post #19 |
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Kopi Luwak
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Grief does make people loony, and even nice, gentle people do scary things when their emotions are in turmoil. Often for a man, the only person he talks about his emotions to is his partner: and this makes a "sudden" announcement of divorce extra unhinging for them. I think I am prejudiced against the carpenter husband, because he threatened the wife and had a history of violence. There is an element of planning in his actions, that makes me less inclined to believe he snapped, now. However, since you know the man, I accept your reading of the situation as more likely to be accurate. I'd like to think that I wouldn't be vengeful or cruel or nasty in a divorce: but that can of paint is a terrible temptation.
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| Regullus | Jan 6 2007, 01:29 AM Post #20 |
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Reliant
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Another update: The father did not bring the son to the shooting but the son was sleeping at the father's house. The father did not use his son as a shield. The standoff was very quiet because the Police suspected the son was in the house and didn't want to do anything to aggravate the situation. Negotiations to surrender were opened at 5:00 am and the neighbor surrendered calmly within the hour. Both victims will recover and have not lost any limbs nor will suffer permanent disability although recovery will be arduous and long. The caliber of the weapon used is unconfirmed. The father of the friend involved has said that his son is happily married and simply enjoyed a "barroom friendship" with the wife. This contradicts public opinion and an earlier article stating the male victim was separated from his wife. I'm sure you guys are not near as interested in this as I am and I'll refrain from updating this thread quite as frequently as I have been. I am glad that I could update with good news. |
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| Eral | Jan 6 2007, 01:51 AM Post #21 |
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Kopi Luwak
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Excuse me, I have been gripped by it, and will be entirely grateful for any and all up-dates. I want to know what charges will be laid. I am so glad to hear the boy was not a witness, and that both the wife and the schmuck will recover without loss of limbs. Thank God the carpenter wasn't experienced with guns. I am retaining scepticism re. the statement about the schmuck being happily married. Trying to think of the happily married people I know who are in the homes of bar-room friends of their preferred gender at 10.30 pm. No, can't think of any. <_< |
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| Bex | Jan 6 2007, 02:44 AM Post #22 |
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puppet dictator
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Well, I know a few, but their spouses would likely be with them. |
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I belong to one of those families that does not speak to or see its members as often as we should, but if someone needed anyone to fall on a sword for her, there would be a queue waiting to commit the deed. -Min Jin Lee | |
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| Regullus | Jan 6 2007, 05:38 AM Post #23 |
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Reliant
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I think the father should have refrained from commenting. As to the carpenter's experience with guns, he is very experienced; he has won sharpshooting awards and is an avid hunter. However, hunting and target shooting are very different from what happened and he may have been drunk too or everybody was just exceptionally lucky. I will update with details as they emerge. |
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| Regullus | Jan 13 2007, 06:55 PM Post #24 |
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Reliant
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Bail Reduction Denied Notice the friend is back to being a boyfriend. David looks pretty sad but he should have thought of the consequences before he shot anyone. |
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| Eral | Jan 14 2007, 12:13 AM Post #25 |
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Kopi Luwak
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First degree assault?
:o
:( I guess that's a charge he can be found guilty of before a jury. The prosecution won't have to prove intent. He made threats to both of them? I'd have thought the schmuck would have called the police. Either he really didn't believe Mr. Boutwell would carry them out, or he didn't want to advertise the relationship. I wish they wouldn't call it "domestic" violence. "Spousal" violence, though undoubtedly PC and therefore derisible,is a much more accurate description. I am so glad Ms.Boutwell is recovering: but it's still a life-long tragedy because they all have to live with what he did. What do the children feel about their father now? Too sad. |
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Family members knew this? How violent? And, the question arises, who did what to whom?


7:00 PM Jul 11