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| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 29 2007, 07:40 PM (617 Views) | |
| Joe | Jan 29 2007, 07:40 PM Post #1 |
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Coffea Canephora
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A 12-year-old German boy who insisted he was a girl trapped in a boy's body convinced his parents that something had to be done, so they agreed to allow him to receive a series of hormone injections, making him the youngest sex-change patient in the world, according to published reports Monday. Now 14, the boy, who went by the name Tim, has now become Kim – a blue-eyed blonde with a growing bust line who is allowed to wear make-up at weekends. Kim has no boyfriends at present but her parents say she is interested in what, now, is the opposite sex. Her treatment, which has cost more than $40,000, is being funded by German taxpayers. Psychiatrists treating her say she was an ‘exceptional case – a person clearly in the wrong body’, even though the decision to grant her wishes when she was so young is still the subject of intense debate. Her identity and medical insurance cards have been changed to her new name and sex. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,248196,00.html |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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| Regullus | Jan 29 2007, 07:47 PM Post #2 |
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Reliant
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You obviously don't read Random Links. <_< I already linked the story. You will notice the actual changing of the sex will not occur until Kim is 18 yrs old. |
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| Boeing | Jan 29 2007, 09:01 PM Post #3 |
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Yellow
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What, did I read that right? Funded by the German taxpayers? |
| I want you. I want you so bad. I want you so bad it's driving me mad. She's so heavy! | |
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| Bex | Jan 29 2007, 09:16 PM Post #4 |
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puppet dictator
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I imagine it falls under medical coverage. |
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I belong to one of those families that does not speak to or see its members as often as we should, but if someone needed anyone to fall on a sword for her, there would be a queue waiting to commit the deed. -Min Jin Lee | |
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| Boeing | Jan 29 2007, 09:25 PM Post #5 |
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Yellow
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Curse my sense of sensationalism. |
| I want you. I want you so bad. I want you so bad it's driving me mad. She's so heavy! | |
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| Joe | Jan 30 2007, 02:22 AM Post #6 |
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Coffea Canephora
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BUT IT'S NOT A FUCKING MEDICAL PROCEDURE. |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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| Eral | Jan 30 2007, 02:33 AM Post #7 |
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Kopi Luwak
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Joe, stop fucking swearing. Newsflash: it is a medical procedure. Hormones =medical. The boy is clearly disturbed, his parents and doctor's have come up with a strategy to help him, it can be reversed, he won't have surgery until he is of legal age: what's the problem? It's one case. It's not an attack on penises and manhood. As Regullus said in Random Links, it seems premature: but it's clear there are concerns about the boy's adaptation to puberty, and they don't want him to neck himself. It's weird, but no need to get in a twist, for God's sake. |
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| Regullus | Jan 30 2007, 03:23 AM Post #8 |
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Reliant
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Wiki on sexual dysphoria BDD In my completely uninformed opinion, I believe it's, in most cases, a psychiatric disorder caused by some organic lack in the brain as opposed to caused by a life events and traumas. But let's say it is just (in most cases) an aberrated distortion of the individual's percerption, in most cases if the perceived flaw or gender is fixed, it takes care of the problem. As a personal observation, I find it difficult to believe that most gender reassignments are due to anything but a mental misperception or fixation on an erroneous idea of the sexes. Over the years, I've seen a certain amount of docus and movies about transgendered and I am always struck by what the transgendered perceives (or is shown to perceive by the documentist) as identifying sexual characteristics. If the transgendered is a man to woman much of the preparation to live as a woman seems to involve hair, make-up, bosoms and clothes which as most women will tell you are not really what makes a woman. I've always found it a little insulting as a woman to see these caricturistc preparations. Strangely, I consider women more than hair, makeup and boobs. Silly of me, I'm sure. |
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| Joe | Jan 30 2007, 04:09 AM Post #9 |
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Coffea Canephora
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Fuck you. The point is that the taxpayers are paying for the sex-change of this person when, in my ignorant opinion, he needs therapy. And drugs, perhaps. |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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| Eral | Jan 30 2007, 10:31 AM Post #10 |
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Kopi Luwak
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No thanks. Keep that strategy for PPG where you can still stumble across you can bully. Waaay too old and boring to make an impact here. Observe courtesy or piss off. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Like Regullus, I don't think you can become a woman just by adding a few bits. I am deeply uncomfortable with the idea that being a woman entails taking on some mannerisms. However, if a person suffering from this mental distress, which I believe is a psychological illness, is helped by such a procedure, then I don't think I am in a position to say 'no' because it makes me uncomfortable. It is a serious procedure and isn't hurried into: nothing irreversible has yet been done to the boy in question, and he appears to feel relieved of some of the stresses he was under. He is clearly troubled, and his parents and doctors are acting in a way they hope will help him. It's a pretty tough situation. That being said, there's a part of me that completely sympathises with the boy. I'd be distraught if I had to be a man, too. Men's shoes. :( Nothing more to be said.
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| Krazy | Jan 30 2007, 10:59 AM Post #11 |
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I haz powah!
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Of course its a medical procedure. and you said it your ignorant opinion Joe. I'm sure his doctors have more knowledge than us and have decided upon the course they feel best for her.
Er, yeah you have to take one bit away, :o :lol: No seriously, you guys are right. |
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| Joe | Jan 30 2007, 07:46 PM Post #12 |
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Coffea Canephora
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No, it isn't. It is purely cosmetic. And this guy can never be a woman. He will never menstruate or be able to have children or any number of things. He'll just be mentally ill with a mutilated body. He'll be a charicature, as has been said. But whoever considered the psychological ramifications of those things? |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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| Boeing | Jan 30 2007, 07:56 PM Post #13 |
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Yellow
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I don't want to join a war of words, but somehow I think there were several things considered when a 12 year-old boy wanted sex change surgery. |
| I want you. I want you so bad. I want you so bad it's driving me mad. She's so heavy! | |
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| Joe | Jan 30 2007, 10:20 PM Post #14 |
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Coffea Canephora
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I'm not sure enough things were considered. |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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| Eral | Jan 31 2007, 02:12 AM Post #15 |
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Kopi Luwak
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All we can go by is the information we have in the very short article: and what we know about trans-gender treatments. Which is the boy consented, his parents consented, his doctors consented. Some children reject the stereo-typical behaviours of their gender at an early age. I know a six year old boy who is crushed because he didn't get a ballerina dress for Christmas. His family accepts that he is quite different to his twin brother who is very happy with his bike: not comfortable enough to buy him a ballerina dress, but there's a general expectation her will admire footballers for other reasons than their football skills later on in life. Hopefully, he will not feel he has to change his physical appearance to be happy with who he is: and that he doesn't have to go through the physical and mental suffering of people who do have that problem. But if it came to a point where he was so deeply unhappy and distressed, and unable to deal with the physical changes of his body at that time, I know it's a long and involved process of counselling. He can change his mind you know. It's not irreversible. |
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| Joe | Jan 31 2007, 02:54 AM Post #16 |
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Coffea Canephora
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That's not the point. The taxpayers are funding this crap; they're catering to his delusion instead of treating him. |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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| Eral | Jan 31 2007, 03:17 AM Post #17 |
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Kopi Luwak
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But they are treating him: it's just the treatment seems weird and skew-iff. Seriously, what are they supposed to do? Slap him on the side of the head and say "You're a man! Snap out of it!" ? He's disturbed: he has a serious problem. I see it almost like putting an anorexic on a drip. Saying "eat!" doesn't work. So you do something to address the immediate problem, and work on the rest. If the family wasn't entitled to medical benefits, they wouldn't be able to access the coverage. Tax payers paid for the boy in the bubble to be kept alive too. |
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| Joe | Jan 31 2007, 03:20 AM Post #18 |
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Coffea Canephora
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Counseling. |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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| Eral | Jan 31 2007, 03:58 AM Post #19 |
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Kopi Luwak
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The boy is rejecting his gender identity. They have concerns he might suicide if he becomes more stressed. Sounds to me like a family at the end of the psychological tether. |
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| lara | Jan 31 2007, 04:27 AM Post #20 |
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Kopi Luwak
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Some women never menstruate or have children. |
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| Joe | Jan 31 2007, 04:36 AM Post #21 |
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Coffea Canephora
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Yeah, not a medical one. |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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| Joe | Jan 31 2007, 04:51 AM Post #22 |
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Coffea Canephora
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Right. Because of some defect. I'm stunned by the fact that you even replied with this as some kind of "GOTCHA" to what I said. Surely you cannot possibly believe this to be a sensical response. Surely you were joking. Surely. |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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| lara | Jan 31 2007, 04:54 AM Post #23 |
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Kopi Luwak
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No, I was not joking. No, that was not some kind of gotcha. Women who cannot have children are very much offended by people who equate womanhood with having children. Who equate womanhood with biological imperative. It's not nearly so simple. Even gender is not easy to describe. |
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| Joe | Jan 31 2007, 05:33 AM Post #24 |
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Coffea Canephora
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Ok. Well please go back and try to understand what I said. He will never be able to have children or menstruate. By that I mean he will not have ovaries, fallopian tubes, etc. He's just a physical mockery of a woman. |
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In the shadow of the light from a black sun Frigid statue standing icy blue and numb Where are the frost giants I've begged for protection? I'm freezing | |
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| Bex | Jan 31 2007, 06:57 AM Post #25 |
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puppet dictator
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And women who will never be able to have children are also physical mockeries? I do realize this isn't your point, but I also understand what lara's driving at. Hilariously enough, in Neil Gaiman's excellent Sandman comic book series, in the "A Game of You" story arc, the transgendered character Wanda (born Alvin) is disallowed from walking the path of the moon, magic available only to women. Because blood magic is strict with rules. (I just read it last week, and the parallel amuses me.) |
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I belong to one of those families that does not speak to or see its members as often as we should, but if someone needed anyone to fall on a sword for her, there would be a queue waiting to commit the deed. -Min Jin Lee | |
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6:59 PM Jul 11