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| Mental Illness; Do medications help, mask or cure? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2008, 06:50 PM (159 Views) | |
| Regullus | Apr 11 2008, 06:50 PM Post #1 |
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Reliant
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Brain Doping BiPolar Nation Eral and I were writing about this subject the other day. Unfortunately, Eral hit the backspace and her in-depth thoughts on the subject were lost. :( I was wondering if the rise in diagnoses of bipolarism, depression and a variety of other behavioral illnesses and syndromes were valid? If someone has a reason to be depressed, one of the examples I cited was that of a physically ill man that was in discomfort and felt useless, is it better to medicate him or try and find a way to change his life? I also wondered if I wasn't being snobbish about mental meds. I take something called propranolol which is a beta blocker. I use it for airplane travel. I am phobic about airplanes and probably a host of other things that I haven't been exposed to. When I say phobic of planes more accurately it's claustophobia, I don't have fears about airplanes or air travel, I mean I get near boarding a plane and I get the fight or flight instinct. Mentally I'm trying to calm myself, physically, I'm a total mess. The symptoms are sweating, difficulty in breathing, fast heart rate and a huge adrenaline rush that supersedes rational thought. Even I'm am amused by the thoughts I have thought when under the influence. I have a running inner dialogue during the attacks and it does me no good. :D What propranolol does for me is inhibit the heart racing and the adrenaline rush - without the symptoms of fear there is no fear. Your mind could be foretelling the worst doom imaginable or even facing the worst doom and your body s. It's fantastic, I love this drug. ![]() However I haven't cured my phobia. I need to take this drug 45 minutes before flying. Could I cure my phobia? Probably but it's a lot easier for me to take a little pill. Is it good, is it bad? I know I'm not addressing the issue but it works and it's very easy. It's easy to give the ailing man a drug to make his life bearable but you haven't changed his life you just drugged him into not caring about real issues. |
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| Bex | Apr 11 2008, 07:30 PM Post #2 |
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puppet dictator
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Hum... I'm deeply suspicious of labelling everyone and their dog as bipolar, because the manic phases to my way of thinking have always been extreme and distinctive, but the descriptions of mental disorders are subject to change (PMS and homosexuality are no longer mental illnesses!). That said, Britney Spears... oh man. If severe mania is to be characterized by rash behavior, profligate spending, and sexual impulsiveness or promiscuity.... It's kind of interesting... I've never had myself professionally checked out because after kicking a crippling depression without intervention (I was lucky), I decided that my "up" phases were not extreme enough to warrant a diagnosis. Cyclothymia seemed a possibility, but having levelled out to a normal mood, nothing looked unmanageable and I am suspicious of medicating beyond immediate necessity. I am moody, but I think I am overall pretty good at managing it. (And if I ever encounter extremes that I feel are unmanageable, I have sworn to seek treatment.) I think the great usefulness of psych drug treatment is immediate symptom management, which allows a person to function well enough to then follow through with other courses of treatment. But there are those who'd rather just take a pill and leave it at that. Finding the right therapist can be difficult, because it is a relationship like any other and you have to click, or so it looks to me. And not all mental problems can be cured per se. Some can only be managed, and whether that is through medication, education, therapy, or more likely a combination of approaches... it's not easy. |
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I belong to one of those families that does not speak to or see its members as often as we should, but if someone needed anyone to fall on a sword for her, there would be a queue waiting to commit the deed. -Min Jin Lee | |
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| Eral | Apr 12 2008, 02:20 AM Post #3 |
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Kopi Luwak
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Anything I say here today will be but a pale shadow of the completely profound, wise and brilliant musings that vanished when I hit backspace. A friend of mine once said, "Everyone is crazy. Some people are just better at pretending to be normal." I thought this incredibly profound and comforting. But there's a difference between a neurosis that can be readily and simply managed, and a problem that stops you from communicating and belonging. I think the problem od over-prescribing is exacerbated by expectations of a quick fix: and the fact that we don't have mental health institutions and ready access to support services. People like to hear there are solutions to their problems. Parents want solutions to fix their children's problems. An official diagnosis/label makes it easier to access services. We want to believe mental health problems can be cured in the same way as physical health problems. We see TV shows all the time where the doctor takes one look at a patient, correctly diagnoses their disorder, and bingo, everyone lives happily ever after. People have a lot more knowledge about illness and treatments today - and GPs have to make a living from a thriving practice. Doctors get a lot of info from drug companies that can influence them unduly. I think that can lead some doctors to take the quickest route: prescribing drugs. Also, what else is there? If I have cancer, there are entire hospitals full of experts to give me treatment and support. But if I have schizophrenia, I'd better hope for a really rich and supportive family. What hope does a doctor in an emergency department have of properly assisting someone presenting with depression? How does someone communicate their problem to a stranger in a room where a dozen other people are waiting for attention? We do need to stop thinking mental health is like physical health, and can be cured by alleviating symptoms: but we also need proper services. We need mental health institutions and a trained psych in every GP practice. We need to value people more. :( My other post said it so much better. |
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| Inky | Apr 12 2008, 02:29 AM Post #4 |
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Thai
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I very strongly agree with Bex here. I think that most depression is a symptom of something wrong in people's lives, but when you're in the gray you might not be strong enough to fix it. It IS important to fix it, though. I know far too many people who think that taking a pill and venting unproductively to a therapist twice a month for the rest of their lives is good enough. How about figuring out WHY you're miserable and finding out what will make you happy? Maybe you need to change your job, or your home, or your lifestyle, or just your outlook. It is hard and scary work. Doctors are getting better at catching this, maybe too good. I had a very difficult time getting some chronic health issues addressed, because the symptoms were vague and I have a history of clinical depression. Once doctors (including several highly regarded internists) heard that, they didn't even bother to look me over. Not even a peek in the mouth, just a prescription for antidepressants. Frustrating. |
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_____________ Jobbar du naken? | |
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| Regullus | Apr 12 2008, 05:55 AM Post #5 |
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Reliant
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I have other questions although I tend to agree with everyone but I'll jot them down tomorrow. I did want to Inky. I've always been very lucky when it comes to problems, I have easily identifiable issues but I can't tell you how many people I know who suffer from slightly obscure problems and are dismissed.Very frustrating and the general reaction even if unstated is the person is somehow unreasonable. I know a person - a woman who almost died from untreated hookworm was told her symptoms were the price she paid for her "delicate sensibilities." ![]() Attitudes are changing. |
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| Regullus | Apr 12 2008, 03:39 PM Post #6 |
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Reliant
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I should tell you what promoted the original discussion. I was talking to a man who teaches at an alternative school for troubled teens. I asked him how the kids were and he said he had been teaching 8 yrs and he found the kids worse than ever. Many of the teens were being diagnosed and medicated for depression and bi polarism on top of their other unfortunate behaviors. I may be old but I remember being a teen and it seems to me bipolarism especially if you can now include generalized moodiness and depression were part of adolescence.I know I had my problems with depression. According to the article, no more than 15 million Americans (see lara it's hard to say anything else. :D ) have true bipolarism. 15 m. is a lot of people but it in a country of 300 m. not so much. I will admit to a certain prejudice against mental illness. I believe in schizoidphrenia, I believe in borderline personality disorders, I believe in bi-polarism, depression, ppd, ptss, alcoholism, especially phobias or anxiety disorders etc., and believe they are as real as diabetes. I appreciate how crippling they can be. But I think they are few true cases of these diseases. I think problem drinkers abound but I think true alcoholism is rare. I believe alcohol, drugs and other behaviors do affect the brain and can cause disease or malfunction. But, I don't believe there is a school 30 minutes away full of bi-polars and depressives in need of medication unless it was school that only accepted bipolars and depressives. I just don't buy into it. I think poor mental behaviors can be self indulgent and are often self indulgent. My prejudice lies there, I never think diabetes is self indulgent. I hold hostile feelings towards difficult people which I don't towards people w/diabetes or whatever. As to your period of severe depression, Bex, I've found a lot of people in their 20s have a crisis and I think it's dealing with an accumulation of unresolved issues. What is normal or abnormal? Take cutting forinstance, I believe it is a designated form of OCD but I tend to think it's a physical manifestation of grief and despair. Sure, I think there is the endorphine release, and it certainly can become a self ritualized need. On the other hand, if you look at disparate cultures physical alteration at times of grief and trauma is very common. You have the classic renting of garments, the wearing of black, the loosening or cutting of hair and actual cutting of the body, smearing the body with ashes or even tears. If you think about for a moment grief/trauma is ritualized and has pretty much always been ritualized. We don't classify tears as an abnormal reaction to despair and trauma or even joy so why must we consider physical alteration as an aberration when it clearly isn't? Self harm isn't necessarily a disease and it's far from being an obvious aberration. We self harm ourselves with a variety of behaviors from the subtle to the extreme or the ludicrous. How many of us have hit an inaminate object in a moment of frustration w/the usual result of "OW!" ? |
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| lara | Apr 12 2008, 05:30 PM Post #7 |
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Kopi Luwak
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That bit from Bex that Inky quoted is what rang for me, too. But I have some rather traumatic first-hand experience with bipolar disorder. One of my best friends offed himself in 1991, when we were 22. He was classic bipolar. He'd tried to kill himself previously. This time, he'd had a very good up period -- he was working as an orderly at a hospital, a job he found incredibly rewarding (although yes, emotionally difficult), and he was exploring what branch of health care he wanted to pursue as a career. He was getting ready for university. (He was probably the smartest person I have ever known.) And then he felt the depression coming. In the guise of his insatiable curiousity he asked a doctor some questions that told him where to shoot himself. Later, we realized he'd seen every one of us in the week previous to his death, but like I said, he was smart -- he said no real goodbyes, he gave no warning signs, every one of us had plans with him for the coming weeks. He made sure not to drink coffee or did drink coffee on his chosen day (whatever it was he read that affected people's ability to go through with it), etc. And then he killed himself. He had a fatal mental illness. About a year after that, one of my uncles, who had battled bipolar disease all his life, did the same thing. He was in his 50s, I think. Again, a brilliant mind and a man who laid his plans carefully. Also a fatal illness for him. Another friend has dealt with classic depression since about puberty. He once went on anti-depressants. After he came off them, he told me it was a good reminder of what it's like not to be depressed, and it was good to know the drugs were an option when things became too much for him. I don't know if he's ever used them again, but they are a very useful tool for him to know about. I also had a roommate with clinical depression. He self-medicates (with alcohol, acid, etc.) when symptoms start because he denies. He has to be halfway down to the deep end before he'll admit it's time to start his medication, and his medication is all that pulls him out. Then he cleans up, straightens out and once symptoms subside, is fine... until he's not. Those are four people I have first-hand knowledge about. I'm sure I know many more people who have dealt with mental health issues silently. In fact, I know I do, I just don't know their stories intimately. I do not doubt that every one of them needs their medication when they use it. And people don't tend to talk about mental health issues, so I'm sure the problem goes deeper. I think people need to find their own way. If drugs are what works, by heaven, they should take them. They also need resources to find other solutions, though. I don't know what a high school full of troubled kids is like, but I'd hope these kids aren't unnecessarily medicated, although I'm sure some are. ramblings... And I've sat in a room of four teenage girls, all cutting, and just talked to them. None of them were on any medications, they were just all seriously messed up. It was very hard not to do anything. It was one of the things that made me decide it was time to quit that job, and that I didn't have what it takes to be a social worker. |
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| Eral | Apr 13 2008, 12:31 AM Post #8 |
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Kopi Luwak
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I think the anxious parents wanting an explanation and a cure for their children's troubles is the reason for the increased number od diagnoses in Regullus' friend's school. There's a lot of pressure on parents to keep their kids safe. There was a newspaper article not long ago telling parents things like "Be alarmed if your teenager is moody and isolates him/herself from the family. It's a sign of depression." As it's also a normal part of adolesence, parents would have to be in a permanent state of alarm. Inky's experience shows how doctors under pressure can go for a quick fix too. More reasons to not overload young doctors. Doctors need relationships with people: they need to know them. Medicine shouldn't be about brilliance - it should be about warmth. but the prestigious medical jobs are in surgery and specialist areas where relationships with patients are very limited. How can cutting be a form of OCD? It's self-punishment, not a ritual! An accurate diagnosis of illness or disorder is the first step in the process of treatment of physical or mental illness: but maybe doctors and patients' families think it's the final step. It's very hard for people who don't experience mental illness to understand that it doesn't just go away: e.g. recovery from clinical depression can take years. People don't want to hear that. Living with someone with mental illness is horribly stressful - that might also account for difficulty understanding long periods of aberrant behaviour. When someone continues to battle with depression, we say things like "Still?" and "Come on, snap out of it!" and "Don't worry, be happy!" I vividly remember being handed a survey in the staffroom of a small school I worked at, asking about how I would respond to a person with a mental illness. One of the questions was "Would you have lunch with a person with mental illness?" One woman said, "I know this sounds terrible: but I wouldn't. My brother-in-law has schizophrenia, and I wouldn't go out to lunch with him. He'd be sitting there saying 'Why is that woman staring at me?' and it's just awful." We all sat and looked at our surveys wondering what we would do. |
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| Nibsi | Apr 13 2008, 02:07 AM Post #9 |
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Te zijner tijd
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Personally I'm not a big fan of medication. I'm fine if other people have a good experience with them (even though I don't always agree on whether the medication is actually good for them), but as far as medication goes for me, a dose of paracetamol for a headache is all I need. Yes, Eral hasitrite, most mental illnesses are something that can only be dealt with in the long run, or you'll have to learn to live with it the rest of your life. I don't think there's a quick and dirty way to get rid of them. |
| -Nibby | |
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| Regullus | Apr 13 2008, 05:32 PM Post #10 |
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Reliant
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I was talking to my husband about this topic and he is less charitable than I am. He thinks many mental illnesses are self indulgent. I think he's a little harsh. He has someone he's very close to that was diagnosed as a level 1 bipolar and while he believes this is an accurate diagnosis. He believes the man does need medication to control his behavior, he also thinks his behaviors - his self indulgent behaviors exacerbated his problem. This guy is like a second father to him but he thinks his behaviors caused much of the problem. You know what interests me? The purported numbers basically, 5-6% of a population will suffer from depression and 5-6% will suffer from bipolarism. While most of us know several bipolars (Personally I know at least 6 probably more) and I known many people who have had depressed episodes in their life. I don't know anyone I would classify as a true depressive. Honestly, I the expert, would classify their experiences as more anxiety. Hmm. Even the people I've known thru their depressed period were never classic depressives, they all continued to function. I have known a couple of suicides but I would classify them ( :rolleyes: I with no training and expertise ... ) as bipolar. Also all the people with depression had reasons to be stressed and depressed while the bipolar seems to make it up. Maybe I'm just prejudiced against bipolars? /end ramble. Speaking of rambles, sounds so sad, lara. |
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| Eral | Apr 14 2008, 03:20 AM Post #11 |
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Kopi Luwak
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I have known two people diagnosed as bipolar in my life. My father-in-law suffered from depression, and I myself am a loon from way back. I am completely sympathetic towards myself, but not everyone else in my life has been. More than one person harbours a not very secret "aren't you over that yet?" attitude which is both understandable and yet, unsupportive. The lack of infinite compassion is others. *sigh* I deeply deeply disapprove of people not taking medication. (Sorry Nibby.) I worked with a bipolar woman who wasn't on her meds. She was a complete fruitcake, and it was very bad for her and her class of kids and the whole school. Especially as she didn't tell anyone until she was facing dismissal. She finally went back on her meds and was fine. Now, she knew that stress and tiredness were triggers: she was also aware that her mental health was better when she worked part time. I couldn't believe she would undertake full time work in a junior classroom (the most physically demanding of grades - you are on the hop all day: there is no "you all go and do this quietly for an hour while I catch up on corrections" that is so nice in senior grades) without medication. It was irresponsible. She knew she had the means to help her function: and she chose not to. I don't understand that. A friend of mine has a brother with schizophrenia. he constantly has episodes, because he doesn't like the side effects of his medication: something she sympathises with. She finds it very difficult to cope with having him sectioned when he's off his head, too. Those are the kinds of behaviours I find difficult to accept. Perhaps self-indulgence is the right word for them: if someone is choosing to be ill, and making others suffer, that's wrong.
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| Regullus | Apr 18 2008, 12:23 AM Post #12 |
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Reliant
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Microbes and schizophrenia |
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| Eral | Apr 18 2008, 01:19 AM Post #13 |
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Kopi Luwak
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At least it's not homosexuality we worry about any more. <_< They are just trying to make mothers worry more. Soon, there'll be a study showing that children born to women who read studies like these are more prone to mental illness. I only read the first two pages, because it was making me cross. Seven times more likely, three times more likely. Sounds bad, doesn't it. Except if we are talking seven times 0.001%. As they could be. I'm usually in favour of research: but this is beginning to smell like "what can we study for a bajillion years without having to worry about our funding being cut?" In a way, it doesn't matter what causes mental illness. How you deal with it is what matters. Here's an idea: let's stop spending squillions of dollars on imagining we can prevent mental illness with a vaccine,(which thanks to all the studies about how dangerous vaccination is, no-one will be game to have) and spend the money on services for people who are already suffering from it. And stop blaming mothers for everything. I am going to read the rest now. I hope I come back with a completely different view. EDIT: Nope. Still cross.
Hmm, we must keep giving them the bajillions of dollars , then.
Look! not even their vaccine is safe! :banghead: They suggest injecting foetuses with anti-schizophrenia drugs in the very last paragraph. Why was this in a Science magazine?????? |
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Your mind could be foretelling the worst doom imaginable or even facing the worst doom and your body
s. It's fantastic, I love this drug. 



Inky. I've always been very lucky when it comes to problems, I have easily identifiable issues but I can't tell you how many people I know who suffer from slightly obscure problems and are dismissed.
but I remember being a teen and it seems to me bipolarism especially if you can now include generalized moodiness and depression were part of adolescence.

4:32 PM Jul 13