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School; My kiddo's journey
Topic Started: Apr 29 2008, 05:32 AM (151 Views)
lara
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Kopi Luwak
Well, tomorrow morning we go to the school for a one-hour session where the kindergarten teachers talk to us about their program. Katya gets to come with us. It will be interesting. I'm a bit afraid they're going to tell us they're going to go to full-day kindergarten starting next year, in which case, I will have to kill them and put Katya back in her preschool. But I'm probably just borrowing trouble.

(Our provincial government has promised full-day kindergarten starting in 2010 and I think it is a horrible idea. They should give the money to daycares.)
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Inky
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Thai
I had full-day kindergarten, and I liked it better than daycare, because I was kept busy enough that I didn't have much chance to miss my mother. I haaaaaaaaaaated daycare. I hope everything goes smoothly, and that Katya gets intrigued.
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Jobbar du naken?
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Bex
puppet dictator
Good! Luck!
I belong to one of those families that does not speak to or see its members as often as we should,
but if someone needed anyone to fall on a sword for her, there would be a queue waiting to commit the deed.
-Min Jin Lee
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lara
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Inky
Apr 29 2008, 03:20 PM
I had full-day kindergarten, and I liked it better than daycare, because I was kept busy enough that I didn't have much chance to miss my mother.

I only get mornings with Katya, so if she's in full-day daycare, she'll miss me a lot -- she'll only see me for an hour or two in the morning, and on weekends.

It was fine. Katya got a bit anxious in the end and buried her head in my legs -- well, at her size, a little above my crotch :lol: -- when the reality of school dawned on her, but she was quite interested in the activities in the kindergarten room and wasn't ready to leave when we had to go. Me, I was a bit anxious.

My boss is talking to her boss about a four-day work week for me tomorrow. I have to draw up a written request, maybe tonight and tomorrow.
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Eral
Kopi Luwak
What level is Katya starting? How is pre-school/kindergarten/primary school organised in Canada?

In Victoria we have:
- 3 yr old kindergarten (2 hour sessions, 2-3 times a week)
-4 yr old kindergarten (2-4 hour sessions, 3 times a week)
-Prep: first year of school (6 hours a day, 5 days a week.)
-Grades 1 to 6.
Kinder focusses on play, social development and fine motor skills, and literacy instruction starts in Prep.

Children are totally unprepared for the long school day, but pre-school education is woefully under-funded here.

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lara
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In Toronto, we have junior kindergarten (JK), which is what Katya's starting in September, senior kindergarten, then Grade 1 starts. JK is 2.5 hours a day, five days a week, and starts when kids are 3 or 4 -- Katya and her classmates were born in 2004. SK is the same hours. In 2010, Ontario is implementing full-day kindergarten for both levels, which is 5 hours a day. I think it's too much school for such little kids, and I think a lot of stay-at-home moms, or part-time-working moms, or moms like me, who have arranged our lives to be home for part of the day, will opt out.

I've asked that Katya be put in the afternoon class, which I found out today is from 12:35-3:05 p.m. I'm not too pleased with the time; it will mean lunch has to be quite early. :( At least we're only a 10 minute walk (Katya walk) from school (five minutes for me).

Her first two days will be Sept. 4 and 5, and will only be 40 minutes long, which I think is nice. Then she starts the full 2.5 hours the next Monday.

JK and SK - 2.5 hours/day, 5 days/week
Grade 1 to 3 - 5 hours/day, 5 days/week
Grade 4 to 6 - 5.5 hours/day, 5 days/week

I think that's how it works. After that, I think it depends on the school your child attends. Some places have middle schools from grade 6 to 8; some have junior high from grade 7 to 9; some have elementary schools that go to grade 7 or 8, then high schools starts.

This is what it was like for me:

Kindergarten (no JK) - 2.5 hours/day, 5 days/week
Grade 1 to 3 - 5 hours/day, 5 days/week
Grade 4 to 6 - 5.5 hours/day, 5 days/week
Grade 7 to 9 - Junior High School - also 5.5 hours/day
Grade 10 to 12 - High School - hours depended on the courses you took, but standard was 6 hours/day, I think, unless you had a "spare" (a course slot where you weren't taking a class).

Katya's currently in a private co-operative preschool, which means it is privately owned and operated with "duty days" by parents (classroom volunteers). It's licensed by the provincial government. She goes two days a week. Tuesday she goes 1-5:30 p.m. (which they call "extended") and Thursday she goes 1-4 p.m., when her teenage babysitter picks her up.
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lara
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Oh, the hours I wrote are hours of instruction. They don't include lunch, which is an hour and a half in primary (grades 1-3) and an hour after that. When I was a kid, we got two hours in primary school and an hour and a half after that. My mom said when we were tired in Grade 1, we'd nap at lunch time. She loved the long lunch -- she said the break was good for us.
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Regullus
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Reliant
This weekend Lily is going to attend an open house for some form of kindergarten for the fall when she's 3.5.

What should I ask about? Anything specific?
tempus_teapot
 
I'd like to add that at this point I have taken my Spider Jerusalem action figure and tied his wrist to my Cassidy (from Preacher) action figure just so I can work out which positions are feasible with them and which aren't.

Read that and weep, internet. Weep!

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lara
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Kopi Luwak
Questions:

Adult-child ratio
Discipline -- do they use time outs? etc.
Snacks -- do they supply? What's on the menu?
Transition -- can you stay for the first couple of days, if you feel it's necessary? How do they deal with a crying child who wants mommy?
Schedule -- what types of activities do they do? Do they have a daily schedule? (they should)
Take a look around and see what the kids are doing, what kind of variety of activities there are, whether children are engaged and what teachers do to draw kids in. Look for posted schedules, menus, memos, etc. If there are no children who are already enrolled present, ask if you can visit during regular hours.
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Regullus
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Reliant
I'm printing your post and taking it with me so I don't forget! Thanks!
tempus_teapot
 
I'd like to add that at this point I have taken my Spider Jerusalem action figure and tied his wrist to my Cassidy (from Preacher) action figure just so I can work out which positions are feasible with them and which aren't.

Read that and weep, internet. Weep!

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lara
Unregistered

You might also want to ask about toileting procedures. Does Lily go on her own in strange places?
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Eral
Kopi Luwak
- 2 teachers/ adults to 25 children.
- Time outs: not normally needed. It's 2 hours of child directed activity. Jollying and distracting work fine. Some time sitting by oneself may be required if you whack someone else with a block, but we're generally pretty chilled.
- Snacks. You supply, we all eat together. (Food allergies.)
- Mummy needs to bugger off after about half an hour. Kidlet will be fine.
-Activities: painting, building, puzzles, climbing, sand pit, home corner. 1 hour indoor play, 1 hour outdoor. Mat time with songs and stories and movement games. One adult begins the mat group, to which the children swarm in excitement, the other adult helps round up any shy ones, suts with them to involve them.
-Toileting: regularly scheduled breaks. Special little toilets in a seperate but open to supervision area. Pack spare undies and change of clothes. If child isn't toilet trained, s/he is a non-starter.
-Info on activities: it will be everywhere. Yes, you are allowed to come during sessions, extra helpers are good. But no, just dropping in for a sticky nose when you feel like it is not on. Let's be polite and make bookings.

Don't worry Regullus, you won't even need to ask. They'll tell you everything and more. :smart:
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lara
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Kopi Luwak
At our preschool:

the ratio is 1 adult per 7 children, and three of them are staff (it's a co-op, parents -- generally moms -- take turns doing duty days).

Time outs aren't used.

Parents take turns supplying snacks. Absolutely no nuts, peanuts or sesame seeds (or even traces thereof) allowed due to allergies. Volunteer #1 brings fruit. If there is a second parent, he/she brings crackers and cheese; if not, the preschool supplies them.

Mommy stayed for the whole first class, and then for a couple of hours, then down to an hour, for the first month. Kidlet was just happy to know mommy was in the room and happily went off and played elsewhere while mommy played with other kids, only occasionally coming back to reassure herself. Kidlet still likes mom's duty days, but doesn't kick up a fuss when mom goes on other days.

Toileting: kids in diapers allowed. Teachers are very flexible. For Katya's class (3.5 to 6 year olds), when one kid asks, the whole room is asked, and they go down the hall to the washrooms. Everyone goes before snack for handwashing and possible bathroom.

I think being prepared is a good idea. You don't want Lily in one of the occasional bad preschools.
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Eral
Kopi Luwak
You have bad pre-schools? :blink:
Aren't they all part of the education system??
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Regullus
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Reliant
The School

The main reason I'm going is I saw they are having an open house. I also need to start looking into available options as it's definitely time for Lily to be with peers.

I'm quite nervous.

Here's another pre-school

Cobb Meadow wants $3620, DCP wants 110 a month for 2 days a week or 160 for 3 days.
tempus_teapot
 
I'd like to add that at this point I have taken my Spider Jerusalem action figure and tied his wrist to my Cassidy (from Preacher) action figure just so I can work out which positions are feasible with them and which aren't.

Read that and weep, internet. Weep!

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Inky
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Thai
I'm glad I didn't go to school with any kids allergic to nuts (that I knew of). I was a thin, picky kid, and would have literally starved to death without peanut butter.

Picking a school seems so daunting. "Here, strangers, have my child!" Still, it seems really important. I wish my cousin would put his 4 year old son in preschool. The kid is not socialized AT ALL and I suspect kindergarten is going to be hell for all involved, at least initially.
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Regullus
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Reliant
Lily's social - she might even be very social but she's not good at controlling frustration (duh!).

The other day we met a fellow toddler and I noticed when another toddler started interacting w/her "friend," she looked a little cross or at least gave him frowny face. :o

Otherwise she seems quite open to others of all ages. (I really like that about young children is they seemingly have no age prejudice yet notice age.) The house has been descended upon and her toys strewn around and played with and she didn't seem to mind. She's just recently started to say 'my,' ie, "my Tego (a horse - I have no idea) or she'll say something is "Lily's!" and tap her chest.

I noticed another friend of hers who has had a lot more interaction with other toddlers was saying "mine! :angry: " by her 2nd b-day.
tempus_teapot
 
I'd like to add that at this point I have taken my Spider Jerusalem action figure and tied his wrist to my Cassidy (from Preacher) action figure just so I can work out which positions are feasible with them and which aren't.

Read that and weep, internet. Weep!

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lara
Unregistered

Eral
May 2 2008, 09:40 AM
You have bad pre-schools? :blink:
Aren't they all part of the education system??

Not a single one of them. Preschool in Canada, by definition, is private -- it starts before the public education system starts (which is September for my kidlet).
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lara
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Kopi Luwak
Oh, and Ink and Reg, we put Katya in preschool two days a week precisely to prepare her for kindergarten. I figured going from nothing to five days a week was a bit much.

Ours costs $219/month for two afternoons a week, plus a $75 registration fee, plus a $25 something else fee (those you pay once for the whole year). Katya goes Tuesday and Thursday from 1-4 p.m. Actually, on Tuesdays she's in the "extended" program -- for $10 extra, she stays until 5:30 p.m.

Oh, and Eral, I take back what I said about preschool never being private. There is a city-run preschool once a week for 1.5 hours at our local rec centre. It costs about $5 a session and runs for nine weeks in fall, nine weeks in winter and nine weeks in spring.
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lara
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Kopi Luwak
I looked briefly at your links, Reg, and I'm going to tell you that I'm not a big Waldorf fan. I think there are good Waldorf schools and bad ones, but frankly, I think that while educators can learn from his ideas, some of them were wacked. Don't let them sell you on the whole Waldorf concept as the be-all and end-all -- find out what the teachers' qualifications are, and how they implement his ideas. He had some very good ideas, of course. And anyone can say they run a Waldorf school -- there's no regulation.

Check them both out and see how you feel. I'm a cynic and a questioner -- that's why I'm a journalist -- so I have a hard time dealing with people who figure they know the answers.
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Regullus
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Yeah, I'm on the fence too about Waldorf/Montesorri, I'm not a true believer by any means.

I was talking with a mother I met a little while ago and she had heard good things about Cobb Meadow. We'll see what it likes tomorrow.

I know some really nice kids who have been thru Waldorf schools but I don't think it's Waldorf that made them nice kids.

We get a newsletter or my mother does from a local Waldorf school and I have to tell you the tone of this letter is somewhat condescending and peremptory to the parents. I find myself moderately annoyed every time I read it.
tempus_teapot
 
I'd like to add that at this point I have taken my Spider Jerusalem action figure and tied his wrist to my Cassidy (from Preacher) action figure just so I can work out which positions are feasible with them and which aren't.

Read that and weep, internet. Weep!

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Eral
Kopi Luwak
lara: they must all be governed by the same rules. No-one can start up a kinder/childcare without adherence to strict rules. The basic principles of early childhood education are universal.

Way to go reassuring the mum, Inks. :rolleyes: :lol:
It's really not so scary, because the people you are giving her to are dedicated to making her happy and looking after her to the fullest.

Don't go Steiner, Regullus. It is a lovely looking school, and the activities are beautiful: but you get exactly the same results and atmosphere everywhere.The kind of furniture the children sit on does not impact on their lives. Are they learning how to manage their own feelings and accomodate others, and have a fun time doing so? Does the teacher have a flexible approach to managing behaviour? Is Lily happy? You do not have to pay $3000 to achieve this.
The biggest problem with Steiner and all the other doctrines is they lack flexibility. Any theory of education that says there is one way of dealing with children is going to fail some child somewhere. And there is nothing more frustrating for a parent to bring up an issue and have it dismissed with "That's not our method." <_< Wankers.

The Dublin kindergarten sounds fine. Choose the kinder on how convenient it is, how attractive you find the building and equipment, how nice the teachers seem. It's that stuff that matters. All the kinders will follow the same basic rules.

Don't worry about Lily being a bit toey with other kids. At three year old kinder, learning to play next to someone else is a great achievement. Playing with someone is big time 4 year old stuff.
"Mine" is a sign of development: the child is realising s/he is a seperate entity. The little one saying "mine" has siblings taking her stuff regularly, probably in order to piss her off. Hence the possessiveness. Lily's willingness to let others rifle through her stuff is great: sharing is a very tough thing to learn. Some only children are terrible at sharing -it's very threatening having someone else in your world.
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lara
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Kopi Luwak
Eral
May 3 2008, 01:00 AM
lara: they must all be governed by the same rules. No-one can start up a kinder/childcare without adherence to strict rules.

We have both licensed and non-licensed daycares. The non-licensed daycares, also known as day homes in some places, can legally have five children and must meet certain building standards, such as fire safety regulations. We have a woman on our street with two school-aged children of her own (they don't count as part of the five) whom I have seen with six toddlers, and she's not very nice to them. She literally lets the older kids play in the street. If I lived next door to her, the children's ministry would have been called by now, but I've never been in a situation where I could get her caught because I rarely see her. (When I saw her with six toddlers, I didn't yet know the limit was five.)

As for licensed daycares, there's this.

Now, I'm not suggested Reg would ever put her child in such a place -- I have a feeling the woman on my street is cheap and some parents have few options -- but it's not a bad thing to exercise some caution.

That said, it should be fairly easy to tell if the children at a preschool are happy or not, and Reg's gut will tell her which one is the right one for Lily. While I let Reg know I'm no Waldorf fan, I don't think they're necessarily bad, either, unless taken to the extreme, and for older grades, I have serious reservations, but certainly not for preschool, provided the school is responsive to parents and children and doesn't expect everyone to toe the line and follow their doctrine.
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